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New Kub

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:07 am
by mikev
Below is a slightly unusual Kub I mentioned before.



Observe the absence of the horizontal line. The fish is 2", at this size the horizontal line should be seen. The fish also behaves differently from the other kubs: it is by far the shiest Kub I've seen, hides much more than the other (similarly sized) kubs in the tank.

Is it a Kub or perhaps there is something Rostratish about it?

A couple of normal Kubs from the same shipment, no behavioral problems with these:


Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:10 am
by Graeme Robson
Yeah a nice variant of pattern. Should look good once fully grown.

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:14 am
by H3D

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:48 am
by Emma Turner
That's a very nice pattern variant. You'll have to try and take a series of pics of it's development - will be interesting to see.


Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:08 am
by mikev
Thanks for the kind words, but I doubt this one deserves "nice".

This other one, perhaps:



This is BBB (Big Black Botia): the meanest fish around here, 3"+, in one of his rare moments when he is actually black and relaxed. More often, he is hiding or grayed out and chasing other loaches.

I had him now for a year, and he is still as bad as on the first day. He actually bites other fish....


I'll try to document the new Kub's changes... but I doubt he will develop a horizontal line ever.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:44 am
by mikev
I suppose I don't understand Kubs any more.

It has been three weeks since I've combined 9 of the Kubs in one tank: 6 new 2", and three of the older ones (BBB at 3", another of almost the same size, and a very fat 2").

For the last year, BBB had a few fights daily, either with a Yoyo, or with the 2nd largest Kub.

There were NO fights in the last three weeks. BBB behaves like a gentle Alpha, this was settled by a couple of short chases. No attempts to bite anyone: in the old tank, it attacked any fish that tried to eat; in the new one, it does not go violent even when a smaller loach tries to take food from it.

The behavior changed also in another way: whereas in the old tank, it was hiding 90% of the time inside a deep driftwood cave, emerging only for food and fights, in the new one, it does not hide at all and begs whenever I come close.

So whatever was driving it crazy was not a personality, but the environment.

I really wonder what it was: the presence of the yoyo? that the old tank was too small? (29g -- but this is only a 3" animal). the arrangement of the hiding places?

What is also strange is that the fish appears to be whiter lately (it seems that the black is less intense and white spots increased) I need to wait to make sure of it...but it surely feels this way. Maybe because it is outside on light sand most of the time now?

Strange stuff...

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:48 pm
by mikev
A total degeneration.... Aggression is fully gone and the color degraded to that of the babies.... :cry:


Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:04 pm
by Tinman
I have moved fish to change behavior for years,a few weeks in solitary or a new tank with other established fish usually calms a psycho down to the point they are easier on the tank mates when returned. This works on Bala's and other "sharks" very well and I have done this with Tiger loaches that nipped at the tank mates as well as Yo-Yo's. They get to comfortable being the boss and need a swat like a brat sometimes. You have made a brilliant observation with this..... :) It may well be flow and space but I think a little stress makes them calm when they get so over the top alpha......kinda like when Larry slaps Mo :wink:

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:47 pm
by mikev
Probably you right...but the fish is totally pacifistic now...

(btw I tried this behavior modification approach with an uncontrollable Barb and it totally failed. I moved him to Giant Danios to cool off... 24 hours later he developed bright spawning colors and is chasing much larger Danios all over the tank...)

Now, the Alpha Kub may be for a surprise ... There is a larger Kub in the Qtank...if he makes it, the tribe will be rearranged. (the chances are not stellar, the fish has an advanced Ich and seems to be very stressed on top of it...)

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:32 pm
by tattooedgemini
i hope the big guy makes said you added new guys to the cubs..that may be one big reason why he has calmed down, since the smaller guys have taken to his leadership he may not feel challanged by the second largest cub anymore....and i like the variation on the one that is missing it's horizontal is nice to see one that is different than the rest in a shoal...

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:29 pm
by mikev
Quite likely, it is something like what you are saying.

The current dynamic of the tribe is this: there are nine, seven smaller ones, Alpha and Beta.
If I approach the tank, I'll see 5-7 smaller ones will be seven if I wait a bit. The Alpha may join them or not. The Beta is hiding most of the time...I know that he is well and eating, but he is certainly careful not to run into Alpha....
But Alpha is very tolerant of the smaller ones...even when they try to take food away from him he does not attack them.

As for the new guy (actually, guys... :oops: the store refused to believe that they have Ich despite very obvious signs and since the fish did not cost me any money I did not feel like leaving any kubs there to die)... thanks for the wishes.... we'll see. I do what I can but this Ich is advanced and they need to survive for three days which is iffy...

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:50 pm
by mikev
Here is the current understanding of the Kub pack behavior..been watching them a lot:

It appears that the two large ones are actually territorial, the smaller ones are not. Both Alpha and Beta have favorite hiding spots (under different driftwood pieces, very specific locations). The smaller seven don't seem to be attached to any particular locations, and hide very little anyway. The Alpha does protect his hiding spot, exactly as he did in the old tank, but the area he cares about is very small.

All the small ones out, the large ones hiding:


The working theory is that Kubs get strongly territorial at about 3". At least these Kubs...

Now, I've been watching the new (Ichy) Kubs and their behavior was changing daily. Their tank is a 10g with a single reptile cave hiding place.
Day 1. The smallest located the cave and is hiding in it. The rest are madly running around the tank, heavily breathing, either from Ich or the stress....
Days 2-3. All are packed in the cave and are friendly to each other.
Days 4-5. The largest is in the cave, the rest are not allowed in.
I saw two of them chasing each others tail in the usual Kub fashion yesterday....given that the tank is only 10g, and the loaches are large, they could barely fit the circle into the tank....

If these new guys do make it, it will be quite a mess. It may be that each of the new ones needs a personal hiding spot, and 65g may not be large enough for this...