Loaches Online Forum

First off I would like to say hi to everyone. I have recently gotten back into FW from SW. We have a 90g reef and just tore down a Seahorse tank (long story).

Here is my dilema - sort of:

Several years ago I fell in love with Clown Loaches. I was new to the hobby (well new to a tank bigger than a 10g, or serious fishkeeping). I got 6 baby CL and lost every single one to ick..not just a little bit but a whole lot. The meds we were using not only killed them, but didn't even hinder the ick. So, went out and tried again...same outcome..but they lasted a little longer (trust me...I feel guilty).

That last bunch that I had we got larger (about 3"), we succussfully got them past a very minor case of ich in the beginning with heat and salt. I was advised to do this by someone that I thought was very knowledgable in CL. We only suffered an initial outbreak and were able to enjoy them plump and active and watch them grow- gave them up to go to SW.

I just purchased 6 young CL (about 2.5-3") and they are now in QT. Fairly fat - no pinched areas and hungry little buggers. I forgot how active they can be especially when "dancing".

So, now I came on here to re-aquaint myself with CL and read that salt is a no no with loaches....the first day I brought my guys home I noted three spots on one - go figure even though I inspected them in the store - I missed three spots. So the heat went up and the salt went in.

So do I a 50% water change and not redose the salt when I add new water and just let the heat do it's job? Though I have read there are strains that are heat resistant.

There presently is no spots on the CL so either it wasn't ich..but I have seen ich many a time before - not only on the ones I lost but in the LFS as well, or they fell off and are waiting tasty morsels

Hi Boomer, welcome to LOL.

If you've already started the salt/temp treatment and your clowns aren't showing stress, I'd keep the tank well aerated, watch them carefully for a few days, and if there is no further spots begin to desalinate the tank slowly via water changes.

Here's hoping that it either wasn't ick at all or that when they fell off the salt did them in.

Thanks for the welcome.

I haven't seen spots since those couple. There are no signs of stress on their breathing/scales.

I have an aquaclear running as well as a Koralia 1 aimed at the surface which is providing some nice movement in the tank.

I am really nervous to stop the treatment...though I know that is the next step because my luck would be the next morning I wake up - they would be coated!

Hi Boomer and Welcome.

There are many gurus on this Forum (not Ron of course)

But

the following may be of some comfort:
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-you ... style.html

TR

Great thanks,

Today there are still no signs of ich. They are active, eating, and clicking! All three of which I am exstatic about. I have not yet been able to pick out the leader and haven't seen any squables to figure out who is in the running - they are all the same length give or take a cm or two.

I still continue to do a vac of the QT (bare bottom) - I also have to add there is no scratching going on either to indicate agitation.

Tonight I will begin to decrease the salt within the tank by not adding in what I have taken out (1/2ing it) and see how that does for a couple of days.

The temp is steady at 86.

The plan is to keep the temp between 80-84 in the DT so when they are ready to go into the DT - I can easily adjust the DT to match the QT to alliviate stress (wow, say that over and over again ) and make it easier should I note any signs of ich that were starting or thinking of starting!

I've been treating a 75 gallon loach/catfish tank with Ich for about 10 days. I started with heat and Quick Cure and then switched over to Rid-Ich and salt two days ago. The spots are gone and all the fish seem to be fine despite the 10 day chemical bath, high temps, 85-87 degrees, and salt. I'm aerating heavily and haven't seen any indications of stress in the fish. I read the "no salt" stuff too and there seem to be opinions on both sides, so I thought I'd give it a try and just watch things closely. In my case it doesn't seem to be bothering either my clowns, kubotai's or catfish. Although the tank seems to be clear now, I'll continue with the Rid-Ich, high salt and heat until this weekend...just to be sure. Good luck with your new friends!!

Mike Lang wrote:I'm aerating heavily ...

Boomer

I left this one out of my post but I do this also.

TR

I am aerating too. I think maybe too much...they seem to be moving without swimming (more of a gliding across the bottom). They don't seem to mind cause they do have something in there to squish into to make them comfortable.

I think the first med we used - a couple of years ago - was Aquari-Sol..think that is the name..used half strength and recommended by someone for loaches...didn't touch the ick at all, the second time we went for a stronger med..still nothing...the last time we had loaches we did salt and heat - they survived and grew to be plump - kind of oval shaped really. I was really sad that we gave them up. My goal is to a) have this group for a long time b)have them be healthy c)enjoy them and their antics.

I thought that when treating ich - raised temps and meds wasn't a good idea becuase of the oxygen levels - it being a double wammy? (I ask this because that is what we did with the meds - normal loach temp)

Salt causes two issues that I know of. (And there may very well be other issues I don't know about)

1) Fish from waters with very little minerals in the water are set up metabolically to hang onto every mineral that comes their way so they will not be deficient in that mineral. This also holds true for sodium. Sodium can (I think) become toxic when such a fish is permanently kept in salted water. In a temporary situation (medicating for Ich) the fish will also store the sodium, but when the salt is removed that stops the increase, and allows the fish to get rid of it.

2) The sudden rise in Total Dissolved Solids can be hard on the osmo-regulatory system of a fish. Generally fish handle the rise better than a sudden reduction in the TDS, though. Salt (Sodium chloride) contributes to the TDS. When you are ready to remove the salt GO SLOWLY. Small water changes, perhaps a couple per week. If you need to do such a large water change that the TDS will drop too fast, then add just a little salt to the water so the TDS does not drop so fast.

Boomer, I don't think that you can aerate too heavily. Once the water is saturated the rest will just gas out and these fish come from heavily aerated waters in nature, so if anything I would expect them to enjoy the "breath of fresh air". I am having good luck with the treatment plan I outlined above, although based on other threads I have read, your results may vary, as the saying goes. Perhaps it has something to do with local water chemistry, PH etc.. There are others here better versed in water chemistry than I, but what I'm doing seems to be working for me and my fish seem to be dealing with it alright......Diana, thanks for your input too. I hadn't thought about the ramping down process. I was set to do a 75% WC tomorrow evening to get the salt thinned out. Having read your comments I think I'll do it in stages of 25% over a course of several days, as you suggested.

I did post this last night but I guess I didn't push send!

I had already planned on weaning the salt off. Two nights ago I did a water change and only added half of what I should have added. Last night I did the same.

Tonight I will add only 1/4 of what I should add (for tomorrow as well). There still is no sign of ich so as I said, I either caught it in the butt, or it fell off and the little guys are waiting...hopefull dead though.

There still are no signs of stress...tons of "clowning" going on though.

Just giving a quick update here:

We have been ich free for a whole week. I still have the heat up, but haven't added any salt since the first couple of days. There probably is only about 1-2tsp worth in there right now.

I believe they have settled since they are starting to squish under the log now.

I cant wait until I can move them into their tank but I dont trust that my three spot ich case is over

The spots have been gone for a week?
Have you ever treated the fish in the other tank for ick in the past with just heat or salt? There's been some talk about fish who have successfully gotten over ick (without meds) developing some immunity to it. However, asymptomatic fish can still harbor ick, and fish with immunity won't come down with it meaning it could still be in your tank and new fish would come down with it though your fish would not.

Just thought I'd pass it on. If you google 'freshwater ich+immunity' or variations on that theme, you'll come up with a bunch of hits for further information.

These guys haven't gone into the DT yet. They are strictly in the Qtank at this point. And will be for at least 1-2 more weeks. I learned that lesson long ago (never put CL right in a tank with others right off....ich does have a way of spreading)


I would love to get more CL, however, I dare not tempt fate and bring in more to the QT cause my luck would prove the new ones would knock out the whole group - and the plan is to "go bigger" next year. Plus, these were the healthiest ones I could find this size, most are just babies that I feel sorry for...so thin and pale....