Loaches Online Forum

Hello,

This morning I woke up and one my smaller CL's is laying on it's side gasping for air very fast

Normally I would laugh at this..but when I put my hand in the tank close to him...he swam upright for about 5 seconds...then started swimming sideways
then he swam completely upside down

now he's laying back on the substrate again gasping quickly

I had another loach die in this fashion about 2 months and I want to know what I can do quickly to help this fish...if anything at all

I simply can't sit back and just watch it waste away

There has to be something I can do to improve it's chance of surviving

help please

It will help folks if you could complete the questionnaire that is posted in this forum, you can find it on the following link:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=16722

Having those details in your post will hopefully provide enough information for people to offer a more informed response

alright here goes

Clown loaches (2-4 inches)
The tank has been setup for more than a year now
29g tank (I have a 55g in the bedroom that I've setup and I'm waiting til the nitrates establish themselves before introducing them to that tank...and I have a 125g that I'm redoing the silicon seals on ...but I have to wait for spring to do the Explosion test)
HOB filter
80 degrees
50% WC once a week (50% of the gravel one week, 50% next week, carbon filter change 3rd week with no gravel siphoning)

Nothing new for the past year
Just Clowns and some MTS
The fish is breathing very rapidly on the substrate...and when moved he doesn't really swim at all...just sinks to the substrate and continues breathing rapidly
I now have him in a breeding trap at the top of the water column to get him the extra oxygen he's gasping for
Water params are as follows

Ph 7.2
Ammo 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate between 10-20

I have a powerhead on the tank as well directed at the surface for extra surface agitation

That's all I can think of

Haven't the foggiest idea what is going on. All I can suggest is that once a fish has reached this point there is not much hope. Catch the problem earlier.

You might try some water changes, put fresh activated carbon (well rinsed) in the filter. Maybe there is some sort of toxin in there, when the fish seems to get this sick so fast.

As suggested by Bully, having a lot more tank information would really help.

I don't what the problem is to catch?
Clean water?

All I did out of my normal regiment was to change the water on friday instead of sunday...same volume...same course of action

I don't know what could have happened to cause this...within' 2 days this has happened and yesterday they were fine...eating normally doing their little loachy dance

*sigh* here we go again

Test results look good. I wonder if there was something in the new water that did not agree with him? Perhaps the water company made some change to the water and the mineral level was different. This usually affects them within a few days, but may not be apparent in the first few hours.
Do you have tests for GH, KH and TDS?
If these tests show that the water is now softer than it was then I would add some Epsom salt to the tank to bring the GH up to where it used to be, or baking soda to raise the KH back up to whatever it used to be.

Swap out the carbon again, just in case there was some toxin in the new water.

Are the MTS climbing the walls of the tank? Mine usually do the night after a water change, then go back under the substrate.

When you got these Loaches, did you treat them for parasites? I am wondering if there might be a low level infection or infestation, and when something minor changed the one fish that might have the worst infection got hit the hardest. The infection (or whatever) was not bad enough to cause symptoms, but when another problem comes along the fish had no reserves to fight it.

Did you vacuum the substrate on Friday? Were there any gas bubbles in it? This could be toxic gas formed by bacteria that live in anaerobic conditions. Usually does not happen when you keep such a good schedule of gravel vacuuming, though. And the timing is wrong for this to be the issue. If the fish breathed these gases when you did the water change you would have noticed right away.

Fish constipation?

I'm wondering if this could be the cause of this poor guys situation

Recently my one CL had a sunken side due to fish TB which has been cleared up and she is filling out quite nicely again...and her buddy fully recovered within about 3 days

I've been feeding them a high protein diet to try and bulk up the female with the sunken side and it's working quite well

Do you think this could be the cause?

No i didn't notice any gas bubbles coming out of the substrate when i cleaned the gravel on friday

I dont have a TDS GH or KH

I will be going to big als later tonight

Could it maybe have something to do with my moving to a new building?
I checked to ph coming out of the tap and it identical to my last place

And I've been in this new building for about 2.5 months now with no issues
and changed the water weekly since I've moved...even upon acclimation they had no issues whatsoever

I doubt that could cause these problems...but what do you think?

Well it's gone now...

Thanks for the help

Sorry to hear you lost the fish

As Diana said, it had obviously already gotten to the point of no return. From what you've posted, the test results do seem fine and so does everything else you are doing.

You mention a previous loach going down with an illness, how did you treat this? Did you treat in a separate tank or in the same tank? What medication did you use? Also, does your tap water contain chlorine or chloramine? If it does, do you use a dechlorinator that can deal with both chemicals when doing your water changes?

It may be useful to take a full set of water parameters for your tap water, quite often a water company will chemically adjust the tap water so that it reaches the tap at a certain pH (helps with pipe corrosion and expected taste). When adjusted water is sufficiently aerated it usually reverts to it's pre-treated parameters. This may just have an effect as you do large water changes only once a week - if your water changes were more frequent, then a 50% water change would have much less of an impact, the severity of which is dependant upon the differences between the chemistry of your tap water and tank water; I don't think this is the case but, it helps to eliminate as much as you possibly can.