Loaches Online Forum

Hi, my first post here. Wish it was a happier subject. But hoping to learn more about keeping kuhlie loaches.

30 G tank, temp around 76/78 without a heater. Sponge filter and corner inside filter with filter floss and a few stones for weight, both run on air. Hood with one tube light. Circulation pump died, should have a new one later today, for current. Nitrites zero, nitrates well under 20 ppm with strip test - barely colouring the pad. Ph high, near 8, with quite hard water, which is very typical for our local tap water. I just got a gallon size distiller and will be using that to moderate water quality for future WC. Basically a planted tank, low light. I use less than the suggested rates of supplementation of Flourish and Excel for carbon for the plants. I have various shrimp, snails, clams and my loaches. I kept one for eight years back when I was in school, did not know then that they liked their own company.. decided this time I'd make sure they had some.

So, started with one loach several weeks ago, but it was the last one in a lfs. Wanted to get him some pals. Another lfs had some last Sunday, so I got six. 3 were DOA in the bag when I got home, stiff as boards. The guy who caught them slipped them from the net to his hand to the bag.. I'm not sure how he could have missed 3 dead ones. However I know they can go in a very short time. So I returned those the following day, they were replaced under the five day warranty. I had not heard of drip acclimation until I got some shrimp the other day, so now I drip acclimate the loaches too.

So I was back to 7 kuhlies. Next day, 2 more dead. Returned them, and spoke to fish room manager, who was willing to listen, as I was not happy about so many deaths, especially the DOAs. We discussed water conditions, catching technique, etc. He gave me 3 more, for my 2, which was nice of him, but one of those was dead and gone before I finished dripping them later that day. This morning, two more dead on tank bottom. If my math is right, that leaves me five loaches. They offered free water testing, which I will take them up on, just to be sure my own tests are reasonably accurate.

But, also this morning, two more of the new loaches are showing uncharacteristic behaviour, swimming up to the top then they kind of just fall back and land haphazardly, and stay where they landed for a period of time. One hung draped over the thermometer that is suctioned to the tank side for awhile, the other on an old sponge I have suction cupped to the tank side. I left it in for my shrimp to graze on, while a new one matures. One is missing most of his tail fin.. though not into the body so far as I can see. They seem distressed, but no signs of injury, nothing else I can see. Water params have not changed since last night per test, but I will change some today simply because of the dead fish, in case another is dead in hiding.

Other tank mates all doing great. One gold mystery snail, a few nerite snails, 3 clams, two danios, 3 bamboo fan shrimp, a few sub adult Snowball shrimp in a breeder net, 10 ghost shrimp, 6 'Blue claw whisker shrimp, they're about 2.5 in long.

There are loads of hiding places in this tank. I'd post a pic but am waiting on delivery of a new camera. I have several pieces of planted wood, many rocks, several with mosses started on them, a small stone 'cave', plus the filters, so no lack of places to hide.I have stuffed the grate intake on the corner filter with sponge to prevent injury to shrimp, and loaches too. Have many plants, and adding more all the time as it is primarily a planted tank, but kuhlie loaches have been a fave of mine forever, and now I'm back into keeping a tank, I just had to have some. Kind of wishing I'd waited now... but can anyone shed any light on the deaths ?

If the two that are behaving oddly also die, I'll have 3 left, assuming none have died in hiding.

The lfs did tell me these fish are very sensitive. That all scaleless fish are very sensitive. They keep them off their instore system, in half RO/half tap water. I am only just learning about TDS.. going to buy a meter today or tomrrow. I expect my TDS is higher than the lfs, since I've used all tap water. But the very first loach I bought, from a different lfs, is doing fine. He eats, shows up at night mostly, the way one would expect.

I noticed the lfs tank has no hiding places to speak of, just one tiny ornament. The other lfs provided several rocks for hiding, maybe that helped the one from there survive. He didn't get dripped, just floated.

I will not have these latest deceased loaches replaced.. instead I'll ask for credit. I will buy somewhere else, I have no more faith in this lfs where these loaches are concerned. It's a fair size store, with over a dozen branches. Excepting that first loach, all my other stock has come from this store and have done well, so far anyway.

Are they really as sensitive as the lfs claims they are, or have they just handled them badly ? I'd like to have a group of at least five healthy loaches, so they have company and will be happy. Is there anything I can do to help future ones have a better shot at survival, aside from buying from another source ?

I have 5 striped pangio and they were nowhere NEARLY that sensitive. Yes, they are loaches, which are not the MOST hardy of fish, but nothing like a finicky DISCUS or anything.
I think there must be something going on at the LFS, or there is a distinct difference btwn the water parameters at the store as compared to your tank. Now that you are are drip acclimating, that should help. I still would worry about the possibility of disease at the LFS causing all this death.
Have you thought about a small quarantine tank to isolate the new fish while you observe them?
There is a lot on this forum on Q - tanks, how to set them up, how long to quarantine,etc.
I could not live without one at this point!
I would not trust exposing the fish I have now to the "whatever" is lurking at that store!!!!

I think there are 2 problems here.
Fish that die in the bag on the way home are the fish store problem. Catching technique, air in the bag or something. (Unless you were careless about bag temperature on the way home). I have purchased fish in the morning, run lots of errands and not added them to the tank until 10PM that night, and the fish are fine. The person bagging the fish adds oxygen per my request, and I keep the fish in a Styrofoam box where the temperature will be stable. Then drip acclimate into water that matches the bag as close as I can (TDS, GH, KH).

The other problem I see is the different water. If the store is keeping them in 50/50 RO and tap, then it is probably a lot softer, a lot lower TDS than your water.
Fish can handle a change to harder water easier than they can handle moving to softer water, but there are limits.

Here is what I would do:
Double check your test results, and check:
GH, KH, TDS, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH of tap and tank.
Mix some RO or Distilled (whatever system you got) with your tap water in the following ratios and test GH, KH, TDS and pH:
25% Tap + 75% RO
50/50
75% Tap + 25% RO.
See which one comes closest to the ideal parameters for the fish you want to keep. (GH and TDS are the most important)
If the GH, KH and TDS are reasonable, but the pH is too high, add some peat moss to the water. Circulate it for a few hours to overnight, and check all the parameters again.

Next, figure out which store you want to buy your fish from. (Hint- if the fish have died in the bag several times, I would not shop there)
Get a sample of the water they are keeping the fish in.
Set up a quarantine tank and match that water the very best you can. (GH, KH, TDS)
Have the store tell you when new fish come in, and see if they will hold some for you. This way the store will take the loss if the fish are stressed by the shipping. If the fish are OK after several days, and are eating, then bring them home.
Drip acclimate into the quarantine tank.