Clown Loach - Red Gills, High Nitrates, Help?
Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:46 am
So, in bold are my questions. In italics is my answer I have found elsewhere and a few of my individual thoughts on the matter.
Sorry for such an essay. Hopefully I've covered everything.
I have been watching my Clown Loaches over the course of the past few months, had a couple of new additions to the group etc.
I started to notice the reddening of the gills, almost shiny metallic - bare in mind I only started looking closely after the new additions so I am not totally sure if they were red before or red after the new additions (with my 6 month old, it's hard to recollect anything nowadays) or for that matter, nothing wrong at all.
There's no ammonia/nitrite. That rules that out for burns and/or suffocation through nitrite.
They're not gasping at the surface or having rapid gill movements but I did notice the odd 'flicking' motions but not recently.
They're eating and behaving as they have done (had the main group of 6 for a year now, the other 4 stretched over the past couple months).
This led me to believe it was flukes which were infecting the other fish.
Does the fluke parasite migrate to other hosts?
I have treated with Flubendazole for two weeks now. Large water change, add appropriate dosage, 7 days later, large water change (today) and add another dose.
I understand 'wormers' can take a long time to be effective.
The gills are still red, so I started thinking about chlorine and how it affects their gills.
When I fill the tank, I use a python from the shower into the tank - I add Prime into the stream as it's filling.
What effect does chlorine have on fish? Could this be a possible reason for the redness?
I found my own solution to this - The amount of residual chlorine in ones tap water vs dechlorinator is not an issue as before it can do any harm it will be neutralized.
Now, I should've done this a long time ago but I never bothered as I've always done regular water changes and not had any problems.
I tested the nitrate AFTER I did the 50% water change (which I do religiously, 50% once a week).
The reading came out at around 100ppm..
I then tested the tap water and guess what? It came out at around 60/80ppm.
I immediately rang the water company who said they will test it and get back to me.
These are the results they provided. This indicates at maximum the water has been 48.67mg/l (science aside it sort of converts to the same) so.. 50ppm is the UK legal limit, coincidentally, it's just under so I cannot kick off about it (shame!).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/209570863/Zone-114-Salisbury
What long term effects does high nitrate have on fish? Could this cause the red gills after about a years exposure to it? Wouldn't explain the new additions of course - "Nitrate basically affects fish the same way nitrite does, it blocks the blood from holding oxygen. But because the NO3 is bigger than NO2, its does not readily pass through the gills. This is why it takes much higher levels of nitrate in the water to be detrimental to fish. The gills are not being affected by the nitrite or nitrate, it is the hemoglobin in the blood so fish would be gasping for air at the surface even in a well aerated tank. (Which mine are not doing)."
Will it ever heal if I get the nitrates down to 10/20ppm? Invalid question now, but 10/20ppm is still the target.
What possible solutions are there? RO/HMA? Chemical media in the filtration?
I read on some other forums (not a lot mind you) that it could be totally normal and me just being hysterical but the pictures will help.
Obviously the high nitrate is a problem that needs sorting ASAP but well.. I need a solution to that also! Something sustainable in the long run. I am guessing chemical media will be expensive changing it in and out so much.
Above: This looks 'normal' here.
Below: This doesn't, I guess? Looks better here than on some. Some have it, some don't.. Sometimes you cannot notice. Am I going mad?
Below: Again, normal behaviour.. See the metallic sheen?
Below: See the top one is quite 'raw'. Bottom one looks 'normal'?
Below: Best picture I got, reddish glow with glittery gold on top. This specimen is one of the new additions.
Video: You can see in this one, my skinny little runt, bless him. After the flubendazole he'll be treated with an internal wormer as he's got the wasting disease by the looks of it. The LFS was giving him away free because of the way he was.. He'd of been PTS otherwise. He's the most confident out of the whole group though, the alpha is at least 6x the size and is the most timid! Oh and the rescue Danio, same situation just from a family member who needed rid. He chases the runt around and vice versa.. I think he believes himself a Clown at times. I should rehome him but I'm very attached.. But I don't want anymore Danios to make him part of a shoal..
http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/Sofie ... 0.mp4.html
Click above!
Hope this helps guys. They're my favourites and I hope to have them another 20 years or more from now!
With the Nitrate problem, would it be the best idea (as mentioned above) in the long run if I invested in RO/HMA? Introduce the water slowly to them. Either that or shelling out a lot of money on media for it which I assume will need to be changed often?
I cannot heavily plant as they'll just wreck them as they have in the past. I have Giant Duckweed as a floating plant to help soak up some nitrate anyway. Maybe moss? Fast growing so will help reduce somewhat? For a temporary measure that is.
Sorry for going on and on.. and on.
Apologies for the phone vibrating on the video, scared me silly aha!
And the dropping the phone at the end, it's pretty abrupt
Thanks for reading!
Sorry for such an essay. Hopefully I've covered everything.
I have been watching my Clown Loaches over the course of the past few months, had a couple of new additions to the group etc.
I started to notice the reddening of the gills, almost shiny metallic - bare in mind I only started looking closely after the new additions so I am not totally sure if they were red before or red after the new additions (with my 6 month old, it's hard to recollect anything nowadays) or for that matter, nothing wrong at all.
There's no ammonia/nitrite. That rules that out for burns and/or suffocation through nitrite.
They're not gasping at the surface or having rapid gill movements but I did notice the odd 'flicking' motions but not recently.
They're eating and behaving as they have done (had the main group of 6 for a year now, the other 4 stretched over the past couple months).
This led me to believe it was flukes which were infecting the other fish.
Does the fluke parasite migrate to other hosts?
I have treated with Flubendazole for two weeks now. Large water change, add appropriate dosage, 7 days later, large water change (today) and add another dose.
I understand 'wormers' can take a long time to be effective.
The gills are still red, so I started thinking about chlorine and how it affects their gills.
When I fill the tank, I use a python from the shower into the tank - I add Prime into the stream as it's filling.
What effect does chlorine have on fish? Could this be a possible reason for the redness?
I found my own solution to this - The amount of residual chlorine in ones tap water vs dechlorinator is not an issue as before it can do any harm it will be neutralized.
Now, I should've done this a long time ago but I never bothered as I've always done regular water changes and not had any problems.
I tested the nitrate AFTER I did the 50% water change (which I do religiously, 50% once a week).
The reading came out at around 100ppm..
I then tested the tap water and guess what? It came out at around 60/80ppm.
I immediately rang the water company who said they will test it and get back to me.
These are the results they provided. This indicates at maximum the water has been 48.67mg/l (science aside it sort of converts to the same) so.. 50ppm is the UK legal limit, coincidentally, it's just under so I cannot kick off about it (shame!).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/209570863/Zone-114-Salisbury
What long term effects does high nitrate have on fish? Could this cause the red gills after about a years exposure to it? Wouldn't explain the new additions of course - "Nitrate basically affects fish the same way nitrite does, it blocks the blood from holding oxygen. But because the NO3 is bigger than NO2, its does not readily pass through the gills. This is why it takes much higher levels of nitrate in the water to be detrimental to fish. The gills are not being affected by the nitrite or nitrate, it is the hemoglobin in the blood so fish would be gasping for air at the surface even in a well aerated tank. (Which mine are not doing)."
Will it ever heal if I get the nitrates down to 10/20ppm? Invalid question now, but 10/20ppm is still the target.
What possible solutions are there? RO/HMA? Chemical media in the filtration?
I read on some other forums (not a lot mind you) that it could be totally normal and me just being hysterical but the pictures will help.
Obviously the high nitrate is a problem that needs sorting ASAP but well.. I need a solution to that also! Something sustainable in the long run. I am guessing chemical media will be expensive changing it in and out so much.
Above: This looks 'normal' here.
Below: This doesn't, I guess? Looks better here than on some. Some have it, some don't.. Sometimes you cannot notice. Am I going mad?
Below: Again, normal behaviour.. See the metallic sheen?
Below: See the top one is quite 'raw'. Bottom one looks 'normal'?
Below: Best picture I got, reddish glow with glittery gold on top. This specimen is one of the new additions.
Video: You can see in this one, my skinny little runt, bless him. After the flubendazole he'll be treated with an internal wormer as he's got the wasting disease by the looks of it. The LFS was giving him away free because of the way he was.. He'd of been PTS otherwise. He's the most confident out of the whole group though, the alpha is at least 6x the size and is the most timid! Oh and the rescue Danio, same situation just from a family member who needed rid. He chases the runt around and vice versa.. I think he believes himself a Clown at times. I should rehome him but I'm very attached.. But I don't want anymore Danios to make him part of a shoal..
http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/Sofie ... 0.mp4.html
Click above!
Hope this helps guys. They're my favourites and I hope to have them another 20 years or more from now!
With the Nitrate problem, would it be the best idea (as mentioned above) in the long run if I invested in RO/HMA? Introduce the water slowly to them. Either that or shelling out a lot of money on media for it which I assume will need to be changed often?
I cannot heavily plant as they'll just wreck them as they have in the past. I have Giant Duckweed as a floating plant to help soak up some nitrate anyway. Maybe moss? Fast growing so will help reduce somewhat? For a temporary measure that is.
Sorry for going on and on.. and on.
Apologies for the phone vibrating on the video, scared me silly aha!
And the dropping the phone at the end, it's pretty abrupt
Thanks for reading!