Clown Loach Expanding -- Please Help!

[chefkeith]

I guess we'll all learn something from this. Good luck to the clown loach.

[mistergreen]

you or the fish should be fine for the night Tanja.

Epson salt or Magnesium Sulfate is a salt

Your sea salt has lots of different minerals Like Magnesium, Sodium, Sulfur etc...

Salts have a curious property of drawing water out of cells so that would help with the dropsy.

Now to find out the cause.... I'll assume you take really good care of your water.. Have you added any recent in the tank?

[Emma Turner]

Tanja, I'm thinking of you and your clownie. Fingers crossed for a good outcome,
Emma

[Tinman]

Mister Green said

Your sea salt has lots of different minerals Like Magnesium, Sodium, Sulfur etc...

Salts have a curious property of drawing water out of cells so that would help with the dropsy.

that is why I said use it also.I am glad this is a forum so all can give their experiance.I am glad all don't agree. Thats how we learn.

Dropsy or bloat is just is a symptom. If it's caused by organ failure, then the fish won't make it no matter what you do. If it's bacterial, antibiotics alone usually take a few days before they start helping. The fish might not have that much time though

Unfortunate but you did catch it quickly,so maybe with some luck. And Anti biotics.
Adding one Tablespoon ,it takes a while for it to dissolve so I don't see it as a shock. The fish usually lay on it in comfort when added so thats why I was not concerned about adding it in two stages.How are things this morning Tanja?

[starsplitter7]

She made it through the night and was moving when I checked her tube. So I am off to the store.

I wasn't originally worried about her, because I know loaches lay on their side. I assumed she was pregnant and wanted a little privacy. So I missed the other signs that she was ill. Augh! I wish I had more experience.

I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again. Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

I changed out 20% of the water, and have 2 gallons of treated water to return to the tank. I added 1/4 teaspoon of Epsom Salt (1/8 teaspoon per 5 gallon, and it is a 10 gallon Q-tank). I also added one packet of Maracyn I and one Maracyn II, and I am dripping all of this into the Q-tank. (I know on the first day I should add two packets of each Maracyn I and II, but I don't want to slam her with to much stuff at once, so I will add the other two a few hours later.)

She has been resting on her side for the last two days, and when I got home today, she was up in a normal position. She looks a tiny bit better. I am hoping the Epsom will clear out the fluid.

Last night when I went to fish her out of the main tank, she was in the stump with the other Clowns. I felt terrible pulling her away from her buddies. I am really hoping that she makes it through.

I bought a filter powerhead for the main tank, and hopefully that will help too. And I bought some more plants. I have them soaking in chlorinated water, and I will rinse them before I add them to the main tank. I am doing everything I can think of to make sure that water is crystal clear and healthy.

In the near future I hope to make a rivertank.

[starsplitter7]

She has buddied up to the line that is dripping the anti-biotics and Epsome salt into her tank. I have it feeding into the floating log, and she laid down in the floating log. I added the second dose of anti-biotics, and the entire concoction has been dripping for almost four hours. She still is big and breathing hard, but seems a bit stronger. If the 1/4 teaspoon of Epsome salt doesn't get her to deflate, can I add more? Another 1/8 or 1/4 teaspoon? Let me know please. Thanks, Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

That don't look good to me.

I'd quarantine the fish, but be sure the quarantine tank has the same water as the main tank before moving the fish. You don't want to put the fish in any acclimation shock at all. After moving the fish do a 20% water change. Then do another 20% water change an hour later.

Don't feed the fish for about 1 week.

If this is constipation, then it's treatable. You can start it on an prolonged espom salt bath. Use 1 teaspoon of epsom salt for every 5 gallons of water. Dissolve the epsom salt in a container and drip the solution into the q-tank over the coarse of a few hours.

Treatment time is 1 week.

Do not do any large water changes during or after the treatment. Do only 20% water changes after the treatment.

The article you gave me said 1/8th teaspoon per 5 gallons (1/4 teaspoon for 10 gallons), You wrote 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons (2 teaspoons per 10 gallons.)

I think I will add another 3/4 teaspoons to make 1 teaspoon Epsome salt, until you confirm it should be two.

Thanks again. Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

You don't use aquarium salt as a preventative though do you? Do you normally add salt to your aquarium?

No, I don't usually use it. More as a treatment, and I had it for when I was trying to sort out a brackish tank. I have Cories, and I know they do not appreciate salt.

[starsplitter7]

Now to find out the cause.... I'll assume you take really good care of your water.. Have you added any recent in the tank?

No recent additions. I do 30-40% water changes weekly -- I have always done this, and the fish are used to it. Rinse filter media in the old tank water. Replace one of the two filter cartridges a month and rotate which ones I replace. I usually only rinse one a week on rotation (so I don't lose all my bacteria).

I vacuum when I clean to reduce Nitrates. I treat the filtered water with Prime or another water conditioner. (The filter cuts the Ammonia from my tap in half).

I have floating plants like Hornwort and Anacharis to reduce Nitrates. My plants are for the fish to play in, hide in, eat. . . not really for the plant's sake. I replace plants once a month or two. I have some Vale.

[starsplitter7]

I am sorry about all the replies, but I wanted to get everyone's questions answered, and I have been a bit scattered from the stress. Maybe we can make something of this mess, if she pulls through.

My last question is, now that I have started treating with antibiotics and Epsome salt do I continue water changes? I will add Maracyn I and II for the next five days.

Do I do a water change before I add the new dosage?

I have added 1 teaspoon of Epsome salt. I have done 3 20% water changes since yesterday, before I started the salt and antibiotics.

Thanks, Tanja.

[chefkeith]

I wouldn't do water changes for a bacterial treatment like this. With antibiotics more is better than less. The antibiotics need to be at full strength and don't forget that this dosing will kill the biofilter on the q-tank. That's another reason why you shouldn't feed the fish.

The opinions for the dosage for epsom salt varies greatly. Some will say 1 teaspoon per gallon, others much less like 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gallons. I just take the middle ground. It's difficult to overdose epsom salt. It just needs to be added and removed slowly.

[chefkeith]

I always put one of those seachem ammonia alert meters on q-tanks. If there is a spike in ammonia, then I'll know right away. I usually put a few drops of Prime in the water each day also.

[starsplitter7]

I wouldn't do water changes for a bacterial treatment like this. With antibiotics more is better than less. The antibiotics need to be at full strength and don't forget that this dosing will kill the biofilter on the q-tank. That's another reason why you shouldn't feed the fish.

The opinions for the dosage for epsom salt varies greatly. Some will say 1 teaspoon per gallon, others much less like 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gallons. I just take the middle ground. It's difficult to overdose epsom salt. It just needs to be added and removed slowly.

The Maracyn instructions says that it doesn't kill the biofilter. If that is true, it would be nice.

Unfortunately, the only Seachem product I can find is Prime. I added Prime when I did my water changes. I will add Prime everyday to make sure the Ammonia doesn't spike. I went to Seachem's website to buy some supplies, and they don't sell them. AUgh! I visited every vendor with in an hour drive, and none of them carry more than three Seachem Products: Prime, Ph Balance and bacteria additive. Augh! Not what I need.

I am not feeding her. She's just hanging out in the log with the tube dropping in the Epsome Salts. Now I have 1 teaspoon of Epsome Salt in her water. If I don't see any major deflation, I will drip another teaspoon in. Sees hard to see because her Q-tank is on the floor, so I am laying n the floor with a flashlight peaking at her. She's also laying with her tail to me, so it is hard to see her head to see how her swelling is doing.

[chefkeith]

IME, the Maracyn II at a full dose kills the biofilter. It will turn the water yellow also. It doesn't reach full dose until after the 2 or 3rd daily dosage. So keep your eye on the ammonia then. A few drops of Prime everyday will keep the loach on the safe side.