Black freckles on clown loaches

[LK]

My clown loaches have developed little black spots. Most are on their noses, making it look they have freckles. Some are on their bodies and fins. I wish I could recall when I first noticed this, but it's been going on for several months. There have been no new fish added since my last clown, bought in the first week of February. He was in QT for 3 weeks and showed no black spots that I can recall. The only new additions have been plants, which I QT for 1 week. I have looked this issue up and found many conflicting stories. There is a marine black spot disease caused by the paravortex parasite, but this I guess is different from the freshwater one, caused by cercaria or metacercaria (or, apparently, there can be other culprits). Some sources say the freshwater variety will go away on its own, as it needs intermediate hosts, such as snails and birds, to complete its life cycle. Other sources say that some freshwater varieties use only fish hosts. I have read the archives here and at aquariacentral about chefkeith's experience with a lethal form of black spot. I have also read others, like Emma, who say that some of their clowns have had black spots for years with no ill effects. Some speculate it is not always a parasite but just natural pigment changes. I have read some posts on wetwebmedia in which Maracide is recommended; others where Praziquantel is recommended; others where no treatment at all is recommended. My fish show no behavioral symptoms (no flashing, no listlessness or loss of appetite). But I hear that black spot can cause blindness if it affects the eyes, which is why I worry about the spots on their faces. Because the number of spots have increased noticeably over the last few weeks, on all the loaches, it makes me think it may be a parasite and not natural color changes (but then again no other fish species are affected). I am at a loss over whether to treat or not. I was wondering whether anyone has any further advice to give on this issue. Specifically, has anyone else has a bad experience with this like chefkeith, where fish died? Has anyone, like Emma, had fish that seem to simply have freckles but no illness? Has anyone treated this successfully, and with what meds? Thanks!

[Tinman]

Several of us with high TDS have experienced this I know of. The last suggestion was to remove carbon if used. If you are using carbon remove it and see if there is improvement. Do you have a TDS meter?I have added wood and removed all rock to solve mine. Many rocks can leech into the water so if you have any questionable it may be best to remove them and look for improvement that way also. Do you have gravel or sand?

Please describe your filtration,substrate and other decor as well as other occupants, tank size etc.

[LK]

Hi! Thanks, and sorry, but I don't know what "TDS" means As for the other info, it's a 55 gallon tank. I run two HOB filters, an Aquaclear 70 and Whisper Power 40. I use no carbon (I put extra biological filter pads where the carbon would usually go). I have 4 clown loaches (3 are about 2 inches, one is over 4), 1 red honey gourami, 9 rosy barbs (all under 1.5 inches), and 6 celestial pearl danios). The stats are ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate 5 - 10, ph 7 - 8, gh 8, and kh 4. There is a small, almost sandy, gravel substrate, lots of java fern and anubias, 2 small pieces of driftwood (bought at the lfs and boiled first), 3 cave decorations bought at the lfs, and 4 small, round rocks, also from the lfs. I do small, daily water changes: 2 gallons every week day, and 8 gallons each on Sat. and Sun. (or some combination thereof). Guess that's about it...

[starsplitter7]

TDS = Total Dissolved Solids. You can buy an instrument often called a TDS to measure this, and it can be very helpful in evaluating your tank.

[chefkeith]

I never updated the aquaria central black spot problem. I was wrong about it back then. It wasn't black spot disease that my fish had. It was a water change issue and water quality problem that caused the black spots.

[chefkeith]

I have just a few questions-
Do you use any fertilizers?
Is the substrate inert?
Are the rocks inert?
How much evaporation does the tank experience?
Do you take out 2 gallons of water each day or are you just topping off the tank?

Can you take a picture of the rocks, substrate, and the clown loaches?

[LK]

Starsplitter7, thanks for the tip. I'll look into getting the TDS instrument. And chefkeith, I'm really glad you saw my post, because your experience was the one that was really worrying me. It's a relief to hear that black spot wasn't what killed your fish (though the story is a sad one no matter what the issue was). Let me ask you some follow-up questions: Do any of your clowns continue to have spots? And, if so, do you consider it a problem that should be treated? Or do you just leave it be?
(Actually, I just took a peek at my clowns now, and some, not all, of the spots seem to have gone away or lightened. So if these are things that can lighten or darken like the rest of the clowns' coloration, then I guess it's not likely a parasite. But chefkeith, in any case, I'd like to hear your current opinions on this.)

[chefkeith]

One other question-
When you add the new fresh water do you dump it all in at once?

[LK]

Sorry chekeith, I saw your most recent reply after already posting back. I don't use ferts. The substrate is inert. The rocks were sold to me at the lfs as "aquarium ready." I am supposing they are inert, but I'll remove them if you think it wise. They're small, and they're only in there because I tied java fern to them. When I change the 2 gallons on weekdays, it's a full water change, not just topping up. I usually vacuum the gravel, as well. Because of these little 2 gallon daily changes, the tank doesn't have a chance to experience much evaporation.

[LK]

When I add the water back, I fill up several 1-gallon jugs and add 1/2 ml of water conditioner to each. I then let it sit for about 10 minutes to let the conditioner disperse, and then I pour it in. Not all at once, but one gallon after another.

[starsplitter7]

Starsplitter7, thanks for the tip. I'll look into getting the TDS instrument. And chefkeith, I'm really glad you saw my post, because your experience was the one that was really worrying me. It's a relief to hear that black spot wasn't what killed your fish (though the story is a sad one no matter what the issue was). Let me ask you some follow-up questions: Do any of your clowns continue to have spots? And, if so, do you consider it a problem that should be treated? Or do you just leave it be?
(Actually, I just took a peek at my clowns now, and some, not all, of the spots seem to have gone away or lightened. So if these are things that can lighten or darken like the rest of the clowns' coloration, then I guess it's not likely a parasite. But chefkeith, in any case, I'd like to hear your current opinions on this.)

All my TDS info comes from Chefkeith and Tinman. I was just giving the definition. Look at my thread on my Expanding Loach and you will see where Chefkeith and Tinman explain the TDS to me and how it can be useful to the tank.

[Tinman]

3 cave decorations bought at the lfs,

These are always suspect too. Many say safe but are not after some time. .They may be checked in a bucket after a few days soak to see if they increase solids as well as your rocks .How long have you had these caves?....Sorry about not spelling TDS out earlier You may check your local water sources website for additives and post that link for more insight.

[chefkeith]

My old clowns and new clowns continued to have the black spot outbreaks until I changed a few things, but they are now spot free. I removed all the rocks that were in the tank and I also don't add new water directly into the maintanks. The new water gets dripped into the tanks from a reservior or goes through a sump first.

The only time my clowns get the spots now is after adding new water too quickly and directly into the main tank where the clowns are. I don't know why adding the new water does it, but it does. I'm not sure if the rocks leaching had anything to do with it or not. It might of been the TDS dropping too quickly, but I'm not sure of it. I do continous drip water changes now and the black spot problem is gone.

[chefkeith]

What water conditioner do you use?

[LK]

Thanks everyone. I guess my question is pretty much answered: The spots seem harmless, and they may go away if I make a few changes in decor and/or water changing methods. For the record, though, here are the pics chefkeith asked for. The first is of one clown. It's a bit blurry but perhaps you can see the spots on his nose. The second is of the rocks and gravel. The my camera batteries died but I'm including one older pic of the biggest clown, along with some of the cave decorations. I've owned these decorations since at least last November. I've owned the other root decoration (in the 1st pic) since January. And there's 3 pieces in there I forgot about: 2 ceramic Chinese guard dog statues, and a ceramic Buddha statue (maybe he's Confucius ). These came with my first tank I got from a friend last May. She bought them from the lfs, and they had been in her tanks for years. But do you think they could be problems?