yoyo loaches and clown loaches.

alainaslan · Post by **alainaslan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:22 am

hello. is it possible to mix these 2 species together? i have few 4-6 inches clown and i would like to add yoyo to my 600 litres tank. thanks

madogz77 · Post by **madogz77** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:25 am

not an expert, but my blonde loaches are in with my 2 clowns with no problems, they share the botton also with 2 plecs a violet and a golden nugget.

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:12 pm

There are plenty of people for who this combination has worked well, but in my experience the Yoyo's can be a bit feisty for clowns. When I tried this some years ago, the Yoyos really unsettled them (both were kept in large groups). You'd be better off adding more clowns to your group, in my opinion.

Emma

alainaslan · Post by **alainaslan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:44 pm

thanks to all that reply my post. i was told in few fish store thclown/yoyo mix could workd. or could not work. so i decided to add 5 khulis instead. fishstore said it was good choice. what do you thinks about that?

thanks. have good time everyone

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:30 pm

Unfortunately, this wasn't the best recommendation by the store. Kuhli loaches prefer much calmer waters to that of the clown loaches (which do best in tanks with fast water movement/high O2 level). Do you have another tank that you could house the kuhli loaches in? Did you quarantine them?

Emma

alainaslan · Post by **alainaslan** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:59 pm

well, i do have a smaller 10 gallons wich would be too small for khuli i guess. it is so complicated. i can not mix with yoyo. khuli wont like the water. what should i mix with clown then? i mean among botias. is there a good botias partner for loaches??

thanks again

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:12 pm

The best botiid species to put with your clowns is more clowns. Honestly.

But if you really wish to keep two good sized shoals of 2 different species, then I'd highly recommend Botia histrionica: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-histronica Others here seem to find Botia kubotai and clowns a good combination too: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-kubotai.

Emma

J@CKSON · Post by **J@CKSON** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:53 am

I keep 1 YOYO with 52 Clown loaches. I dont seem to have any problems. The YOYO is one of the group as well as the Senegal bichir I have with them. It is really funny to watch.

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:12 am

J@CKSON wrote:I keep 1 YOYO with 52 Clown loaches. I dont seem to have any problems. The YOYO is one of the group as well as the Senegal bichir I have with them. It is really funny to watch.

Your Yoyo doesn't have much choice but to shoal with the clown loaches though. Like the clowns, they require company of their own kind so that they can form a natural social hierarchy. Keeping one on its own is simply cruel.

Emma

piggy4 · Post by **piggy4** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:56 am

Emma's right about it being cruel keeping just one Botia , at one time this was the norm ! these days you could find a tank with nothing but one type of loach i.e. a large species tank !

J@CKSON · Post by **J@CKSON** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:18 pm

Emma Turner wrote:
J@CKSON wrote:I keep 1 YOYO with 52 Clown loaches. I dont seem to have any problems. The YOYO is one of the group as well as the Senegal bichir I have with them. It is really funny to watch.
Your Yoyo doesn't have much choice but to shoal with the clown loaches though. Like the clowns, they require company of their own kind so that they can form a natural social hierarchy. Keeping one on its own is simply cruel.

Emma

Well first I would like to say you are quick to jump to conclusions and not very welcoming at all. You must drive members away with an attitude like that. I know you are know around here as the Loach Queen but you dont have to be so rude

Second this is the only one I have ever seen and when it was in the store it had no other loach company of any type.

Third I plan on adding more as soon as I find some that are not .5''-1'' long which are the only other ones I have seen. Buying those would be very cruel because they would end up as a meal for some of the other fish.

Sorry maybe I should of derailed the thread and told this story from the start. Now I have no choice but to tell it so I can sort of defend myself

I really like the site

New to site not to fish

Ashleigh · Post by **Ashleigh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:42 pm

Hi J@CKSON,

Welcome to LOL

Im afraid I would have to agree with Emma and Piggy that keeping one Botia almorhae on its own is cruel in the sense that you are not allowing the loaches to form a natural social hierarchy as they would do in the wild as Emma had said before.

Good to hear that you are planning to add more buddies for him/her, it is a pain to find loaches in good condition that are not at the fragile stage of one inch or less.

Alainaslan, to date I have kept my Chromobotia macracanthus with several other species of loach. Firstly along side 10 Botia almorhae and 8 Botia striata at the same time. I found that the B.almorhae over-shadowed the other loaches including the group of 20+ clowns.

Hence I changed around the tank leaving just clowns and adding in 5 Botia udomritthiruji and this time found that the clowns out competed their new tank mates and I had to move the B.udomritthiruji to another tank. Now I have my clowns on their own with one species of dither and all has settled down.

I have also kept B.almorhae with Botia dario and although these two species, I have found to be particularly feisty, the B.almorhae managed to out-compete them aswell.

As of now I am gradually splitting all my Botia tanks so that I only have one species per tank, granted that unfortunately I will have to rehome some of these guys and just up the numbers of the groups Im going to hold onto (if anyone is interested pm me!), it is better in the long run as whatever combination I have someone always seems to cause problems for others

Ashleigh

Mark in Vancouver · Post by **Mark in Vancouver** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:58 pm

Hi J@CKSON. Welcome to LOL.

We need to clarify something here, IMO. The posts made by all posters and the moderators are intended to be helpful, not rude. The knowledge base upon which we rely is a group effort - which has been developed by hundreds of loach keepers, and expert aquarists with a vast cumulative knowledge built on experience first hand.

One of the basic beliefs held by LOL is that most Botiid loaches (B. almorhae included) should in all cases be kept in numbers of their own species. This is a basic principle that we constantly try to educate people about. They are shoaling fish, and the company of others of their kind enhances their health and longevity in the fish tank. This fact has been shown over and over to be the case.

Emma Turner is one of the most knowledgeable people in the world when it comes to the care of loaches. Her articles continue to be translated into many languages and considered benchmarks in the authoritative keeping of healthy loaches. It isn't a popularity contest or a matter of standing by one's friends - she just happens to know very well what she's talking about.

I agree with her and Ashleigh and Piggy - as will many other posters and moderators on this forum. If you keep one Botiid loach on its own (even among other loaches), it will not have the opportunity to develop as it should.

I see absolutely no reason why you should feel "defensive" about this fact. No one is accusing you of mistreating your fish. We are merely pointing out an obvious (to loach-keepers) issue of numbers.

I'm very sorry if you find this unwelcoming or rude. I'm certain that that's not how it was intended.

J@CKSON · Post by **J@CKSON** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:28 pm

My apaologese and yes I do know very well who Emma and I respect every thing she has done. Her articles are one of the reasons I joined the site and why I love Clown Loaches so much

SORRY Emma I do not mean any disrespect I just felt attacked.

So what should I do get rid of the fish? I am trying very hard to find more for it

and I should not add more with the clowns from what this thread is saying?

Thanks for the welcomes

Ashleigh · Post by **Ashleigh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:56 pm

J@CKSON wrote:My apaologese and yes I do know very well who Emma and I respect every thing she has done. Her articles are one of the reasons I joined the site and why I love Clown Loaches so much

SORRY Emma I do not mean any disrespect I just felt attacked.

So what should I do get rid of the fish? I am trying very hard to find more for it and I should not add more with the clowns from what this thread is saying?

Thanks for the welcomes

No one is saying that B.almorhae and Chromobotia macracanthus cannot be kept successfully together-Im sure there are many people on the forum who have found this combination to work, I just stated my situation above, the 10 I have are little brats

Theres a guy called Frank that sells a number of loach species including B.almorhae online and he rates well with members that have bought off him in the past- http://franksaquarium.com have a check and see if he ships to your area as Im not to familiar.

Ashleigh

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