My tank has stabilized out as far as fish are concerned. I'm probably overstocked but all the fish seem healthy and active. I am now trying to get good plant growth and seem to be in a constant plant deterioration mode - stunted growth, yellowing or lightening leaves and dying leaves and branches. I have a 75 gal with (2) 48" PennPlax Aquari-lux bulbs on timer for 13 hours a day. I also have a 48" strip of lunar lights (a total of 24 blue LED's) on for 14 hours a day. I have an Eheim Pro 2 with the output doing constant surface agitation. I have a Whisper 3 and Aquaclear 110 both adding extra agitation to the surface constantly. I have put my air stone on timer to come on only during "no light" times. The surface of my tank looks like "rapids" which I always thought was good for the fish, however my O2 test kit shows low readings (only 2 or 5mg/l depending on how you hold the test tube). I bought this test kit from a pet shop a year ago from their clearance aisle so perhaps it is unreliable. I will be seeking a new O2 and CO2 test kit so I can monitor these items. I am thinking that my plants may be starved for CO2. I am adding EXCEL daily and TRACE and COMPREHENSIVE SUPPLEMENT twice a week for about a month now.
My KH is still 3 no matter what I do (25% water change weekly). Nitrites are 0 and Nitrates 10-15. PH is 7.5. Temp 82.
I am confused as different pet shop owners have given me different advice on how to grow plants successfully. I try to use as many of their suggestions as I can.
I have an assortment of plants and lots of them.
(12) large vals now down to "tall lawn grass" height
(12) corkscrew vals seeming to be hanging in at about 6"
(12) vals at about 8"
A few cryptos and I don't know what varieties
Some java moss that came with a piece of driftwood - seems to be breaking down and plugging up by filter intakes
Amazon swords that are yellowing up and dying (and perhaps being eaten)
Anubias that seem to be doing relatively well for some reason
Hygrophila that seems to be waning
Some tall skinny grass that was doing good at one point but now is waning
Other unknown plants hanging in but not prospering
I will try to add some photos when I get my car (camera) out of the shop. I tried taking a video but my camera will not let me zoom in video mode and still photos do not capture enough detail either. Also a posting site I tried does not seem to allow videos - at least without joining with some monthly charges.
I'm getting very frustrated again and I'd like to get this back in shape as soon as possible so I can enjoy summer camping season (when I let my tank maintenance slip a little) during our relatively short summer in central New York state.
loach tank gone bad
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ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
plant needs
Too old to learn
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ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
Here is a link to some photos of my tank. It may involve registration which is free to view them. I am not good at this kind of thing so I hope you can see them.
http://img210.imageshack.us/slideshow/i ... lic=&tags=
http://img210.imageshack.us/slideshow/i ... lic=&tags=
Too old to learn
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ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
How many watts are the bulbs? I would suggest that this tank is not getting enough light. Get another fixture, and double the number of bulbs. Get some of several colors ranging from 6,500 K to 10,000 K. Aim for at least 2 watts per gallon.
That much surface agitation is too much, it is driving off the CO2.
Vals do not like Excel; low dose they will tolerate, higher dose and they will die. That they are not dead, and that you have Anacharis suggests you are not dosin the Excel enough. (Anacharis is another plant that dies when you use Excel)
Vals can utilize carbonates as a source of carbon. (roughly half of the plants we use in the aquarium can do this) but a KH of 3 German degrees of hardness is very low for this.
Best source of carbon for a tank this size is CO2.
CO2 can be measured with a drop checker (Aquatic Plant Central has instructions)
It can also be 'measured' by looking at a chart that compares pH and KH.
with KH of 3 degrees and pH of 7.5 this tank has essentially no CO2.
Echinodorus (Amazon Swords) are heavy root feeders. I would use fertilizer tablets for them.
That much surface agitation is too much, it is driving off the CO2.
Vals do not like Excel; low dose they will tolerate, higher dose and they will die. That they are not dead, and that you have Anacharis suggests you are not dosin the Excel enough. (Anacharis is another plant that dies when you use Excel)
Vals can utilize carbonates as a source of carbon. (roughly half of the plants we use in the aquarium can do this) but a KH of 3 German degrees of hardness is very low for this.
Best source of carbon for a tank this size is CO2.
CO2 can be measured with a drop checker (Aquatic Plant Central has instructions)
It can also be 'measured' by looking at a chart that compares pH and KH.
with KH of 3 degrees and pH of 7.5 this tank has essentially no CO2.
Echinodorus (Amazon Swords) are heavy root feeders. I would use fertilizer tablets for them.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
The bulbs are 32w each. I have been reading all I can on the internet about lighting and plants and some articles say that lumens are a better measure of light than watts as watts are actually a measure of how much electricity is being used. I have been toying with the idea of getting some T2 or T5 lighting which have very high lumen output while using small wattage. Your suggestion of color range is right on with everything I have read. I'm also concerned about driving the loaches into their hiding place if I add more lighting as they prefer subdued lighting. Are you talking about CO2 injection where I buy a tank and then regulate it down to a slow bubble in the tank? I talked to one guy at the recent fish auction who has good success with plants and he says he does nothing special with lighting or CO2. I turned the canister output tube from surface agitation to an almost vertical down position this evening. At this point the main surface agitation is coming from the whisper 3 until the lights go out and then my air stone comes on. I must say I have never had success with live plants with any tank in the past several years so I do not think there is something very unique about this setup. I am curious however about my low hardness reading - especially since water in these parts is known as being on the hard side. I have an old master test kit and it used to indicate moderately hard to rather hard. What is the relationship between KH and overall hardness?
I added the blue lunar LED lights inside my main fixture between the fluoresent tubes mainly for giving the fish a little reduced lighting before the lights go out for the night. If these lunar lights have no practical effect on the fish or plants then I could remove them and use the space to add some T2 lighting. Unfortunately there is not a lot of choice in T2 bulb selection presently but one site (americanaquariumproducts.com) offers the lamps in 6400K 13w 950 lumens (which is 70% more than standard tubes) and last 10000 hours for $35 each. Two of these supposedly will supply enough light for a 60 gal tank. With my current lighting this may be the answer as far as light is concerned.
But I am still curious about this CO2 situation. Is there a brand or model of CO2 apparatus that you would recommend? It would have to reside in the tank cabinet as my wife will not want an ugly tank in our living room.
I wish I could have someone visit my home and give me a checklist of what I need to make this tank (plants and fish) spectacular.
Are you coming to town for the annual boxing hall of fame presentations in June of this year?
I added the blue lunar LED lights inside my main fixture between the fluoresent tubes mainly for giving the fish a little reduced lighting before the lights go out for the night. If these lunar lights have no practical effect on the fish or plants then I could remove them and use the space to add some T2 lighting. Unfortunately there is not a lot of choice in T2 bulb selection presently but one site (americanaquariumproducts.com) offers the lamps in 6400K 13w 950 lumens (which is 70% more than standard tubes) and last 10000 hours for $35 each. Two of these supposedly will supply enough light for a 60 gal tank. With my current lighting this may be the answer as far as light is concerned.
But I am still curious about this CO2 situation. Is there a brand or model of CO2 apparatus that you would recommend? It would have to reside in the tank cabinet as my wife will not want an ugly tank in our living room.
I wish I could have someone visit my home and give me a checklist of what I need to make this tank (plants and fish) spectacular.
Are you coming to town for the annual boxing hall of fame presentations in June of this year?
Too old to learn
I am talking about pressurized CO2.
Sites like Aquatic Plant Central and others are the best place for info about this.
An entirely different way to go is a natural planted tank. Go to Aquatic Plant Central and look into the El Natural forum. Diana Walstad is the moderator of that forum, and has written a book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"
KH = carbonates. Carbonates are a buffer that stabilizes the pH. In general, and certainly not all the time, low KH = low pH, and high KH = high pH. Other things affect pH, too.
GH = calcium and magnesium. Plants use these 2 minerals and many others in trace amounts. There is a vague link between the two:
The most common sources of water are usually rain, snow, rivers, or wells. Water that flows over or though rocks dissolves some of that rock, and the minerals end up in the water.
One of the more common, and easy to dissolve rock are the various limestones, which are calcium and magnesium carbonates.
There are other minerals present in water that we do not usually measure, but plants use in small amounts. If the GH of your water is from a natural source (water that gets is minerals from the rock and soil it passes through) then it is highly likely that there are enough of most other minerals to help out in your tank. Not enough to totally support all the plants, though.
Use a plant specific substrate. In Diana Walstad's method you would use garden soil. There are other materials that also support plant growth MUCH better than sand or gravel. Some of these materials have extra minerals already in them, others can hold the minerals once they are in the tank, but you do need to add the minerals. High tech tanks (pressurized CO2, light over 2 watts per gallon) will usually use Amano (ADA), Eco Complete, Florite, or other special soil.
Most of my tanks are closer in set up to Diana Walstad's methods, but my own garden soil does not work very well. I use Soil Master Select or Turface. 2 watts per gallon from T-12 and T-8 bulbs, and DIY (yeast) CO2 and Excel. I am doing something like the Estimative Index (google it with Tom Barr in the search) as a fertilizer schedule.
The moonlights are a good thing for the fish. The gradual dimming of the light and the slow brightening in the morning do help them not to startle, and to find their favorite sleeping spot. These sorts of lights are not usually bright enough to help the plants, though.
Yes, lumens is a better measurement. Yes, the smaller diameter fluorescent bulbs are better than the larger ones. You can get more light (lumens) per watt with the smaller bulbs.
Planted tanks generally follow either of two basic outlines, with quite a few variations (about as many variations as there are planted tank people)
High Tech:
Light over 2 wpg
Pressurized CO2
Special plant substrates
Very careful attention to fertilizer, lots of testing (especially at first)
Low Tech:
Light just about 2 watts per gallon
DIY CO2 (smaller tanks), Excel, or no CO2
Good plant substrate, but not usually ADA products. Might be sand and fertilizer tablets
Enough attention to fertilizer that the plants are not deficient. This may be about 1/4 of the fertilizer dosing as a high tech tank.
The natural tank systems (yes, there are more than one system) are more often like the low tank outline, but usually use a better quality of soil (including garden soil, or mineralized soil) and therefore need less fertilizers. The tanks may be close to a window for some added light.
Sites like Aquatic Plant Central and others are the best place for info about this.
An entirely different way to go is a natural planted tank. Go to Aquatic Plant Central and look into the El Natural forum. Diana Walstad is the moderator of that forum, and has written a book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"
KH = carbonates. Carbonates are a buffer that stabilizes the pH. In general, and certainly not all the time, low KH = low pH, and high KH = high pH. Other things affect pH, too.
GH = calcium and magnesium. Plants use these 2 minerals and many others in trace amounts. There is a vague link between the two:
The most common sources of water are usually rain, snow, rivers, or wells. Water that flows over or though rocks dissolves some of that rock, and the minerals end up in the water.
One of the more common, and easy to dissolve rock are the various limestones, which are calcium and magnesium carbonates.
There are other minerals present in water that we do not usually measure, but plants use in small amounts. If the GH of your water is from a natural source (water that gets is minerals from the rock and soil it passes through) then it is highly likely that there are enough of most other minerals to help out in your tank. Not enough to totally support all the plants, though.
Use a plant specific substrate. In Diana Walstad's method you would use garden soil. There are other materials that also support plant growth MUCH better than sand or gravel. Some of these materials have extra minerals already in them, others can hold the minerals once they are in the tank, but you do need to add the minerals. High tech tanks (pressurized CO2, light over 2 watts per gallon) will usually use Amano (ADA), Eco Complete, Florite, or other special soil.
Most of my tanks are closer in set up to Diana Walstad's methods, but my own garden soil does not work very well. I use Soil Master Select or Turface. 2 watts per gallon from T-12 and T-8 bulbs, and DIY (yeast) CO2 and Excel. I am doing something like the Estimative Index (google it with Tom Barr in the search) as a fertilizer schedule.
The moonlights are a good thing for the fish. The gradual dimming of the light and the slow brightening in the morning do help them not to startle, and to find their favorite sleeping spot. These sorts of lights are not usually bright enough to help the plants, though.
Yes, lumens is a better measurement. Yes, the smaller diameter fluorescent bulbs are better than the larger ones. You can get more light (lumens) per watt with the smaller bulbs.
Planted tanks generally follow either of two basic outlines, with quite a few variations (about as many variations as there are planted tank people)
High Tech:
Light over 2 wpg
Pressurized CO2
Special plant substrates
Very careful attention to fertilizer, lots of testing (especially at first)
Low Tech:
Light just about 2 watts per gallon
DIY CO2 (smaller tanks), Excel, or no CO2
Good plant substrate, but not usually ADA products. Might be sand and fertilizer tablets
Enough attention to fertilizer that the plants are not deficient. This may be about 1/4 of the fertilizer dosing as a high tech tank.
The natural tank systems (yes, there are more than one system) are more often like the low tank outline, but usually use a better quality of soil (including garden soil, or mineralized soil) and therefore need less fertilizers. The tanks may be close to a window for some added light.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
-
ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
After several weeks of plant decline, they seem to have started a rebirth. I see little bits of new growth in several locations - too bad I let them decline so long. I have since added (2) 19" T2 bulbs and a homebrew co2 factory outputting to a power head for distribution. I bought one co2 test kit that still indicates low co2 and I have ordered a glass bulb contraption via ebay that looks promising for getting an accurate reading. I have cut way back on surface agitation for the purpose of maintaining any co2 that may be in the water. The fish are not groping for air so the oxygen is adequate. The livebearers are dropping their broods but live food is such a delicacy that the other fish cannot control themselves. I'm not sure if I provided a link to my tank pictures (before the recent improvements) but here it is again: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/stotaposter/. I have removed the two new Aquarilux bulbs from the distant pet shop and temporarily installed my two year old 20000K bulbs due to greater light output. I will be replacing these with new 48" trichromatic bulbs very soon.
Too old to learn
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ramjet1948
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: Central New York
update on loach tank gone bad
I have built a new light fixture via Rex Greggs suggestion of AH Supply. I now have 110w of 5500K AND 110w of 6700K lighting going into my 75g. I have loaded it with plants and am seeing oxygen bubbles coming off of most of the plant leaves. I am seeing the growth of some green algae and hope that this will disipate somehow - perhaps with addition of a pleco (which I am not fond of). I have co2 injection and built a Rex Gregg reactor. I took the following readings on 11/5/09: pH 6.5; Nitrite - 0; Nitrate - 20; tetra KH - 3; API KH - 5; GH - 0; o2 - 8 mg/l; co2 - 22 mg/l. I have no other test kits and do not add any ferts at this point. Does anyone have any recommendations.
Too old to learn
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