what size tank for angelica botia

[DarrenMnaples]

i was woundering do you think i could put 3 angelica botias in a 29 gallon tank or what is the min size tank for them

[mikev]

i was woundering do you think i could put 3 angelica botias in a 29 gallon tank or what is the min size tank for them

NO.

from your previous post:

but as for the cichlids i moved most of them into my 29 gallon the only ones left are the baby yellow labs

[DarrenMnaples]

botias are semi agressive and they get along fin with cichlids acutillay from what i have read botia;s are more agresive than loaches thats why they are called botia insted of loaches

[Emma Turner]

they get along fin with cichlids

No, actually they don't. Your cichlids are juveniles and they will change as they mature.
And as mentioned numerous times before, the preferred water parameters of each are TOTALLY different.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=1627

acutillay from what i have read botia;s are more agresive than loaches thats why they are called botia insted of loaches

dear oh dear.....

[sully]

botias eh. so that's the answer.

[DarrenMnaples]

i am not trying to be rude i already know everyones opions about loachs and cichlids but the question was.....Is a 29 gallon tank to small for three angelica Botia's? .....i already know it is to small for adult cichlids so i am doing some rearranging they will probally be in there with some red and blue gourammies.

[HylaChristine]

http://miami.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/sea ... iation=sss

Bigger tanks in your area...

[mikev]

What is the difference between Loaches and Botias in your opinion, if this is not a secret?

Per your question: 29g should do, at least for some time, B.Kubotai's (not angelica any longer) grow very slowly and don't get as large as Clowns or Yoyo's.

However: Gouramis again may be a bad combination. Not as bad as your cichlid idea, but Kubotai's may mistreat them.

Danios, Rasboras, Barbs, Rainbowfish -- a plenty of good choices among these species.

[DarrenMnaples]

thanks mike and thanks to you too hyla cool web link .........and my lfs said " Any fish that are called loachs are not as abressive as any fish called botia "......i know clowns are botias too but are comminly called loachs and other fish like the blue botia are more agressive that is the only diffrence from what i have heard is there agretion.......just something i heard thats all dont hold it aagints me ok

[Emma Turner]

thanks mike and thanks to you too hyla cool web link .........and my lfs said " Any fish that are called loachs are not as abressive as any fish called botia "......i know clowns are botias too but are comminly called loachs and other fish like the blue botia are more agressive that is the only diffrence from what i have heard is there agretion.......just something i heard thats all dont hold it aagints me ok

I take it this is the same store that sold you loaches and Malawi cichlids for the same tank?............

[DarrenMnaples]

emma the more reserch i do on that topic the more i am finding out that loachs can adapt to almost any ph as long as the water is clean even you said yourself that your loach tank was around 6.6 or lower right???...so if the can survive in .6 lower ph than the more commen 7.0 why could they not adapt in 7.6 or higher mabey you should chceck into that for us all huh .....i know alot of people who you disagree with you about keeping loachs and cichlids together....any way why are you bringing that sore subject up again the post is about keeping kubotia in a 29 gallon ......

[Emma Turner]

Have you read up on osmoregulation in any depth, Darren?

Do you realise what sort of water conditions clown loaches live in in the wild? I believe people have a responsibility to keep fish in as close conditions as realsitically possible to that which they originate from in the wild. How long have you kept these two very different species of fish together for? - weeks, months, years, decades?

the more reserch i do on that topic the more i am finding out that loachs can adapt to almost any ph as long as the water is clean

Now that is rather a silly statement to make isn't it, Darren.

even you said yourself that your loach tank was around 6.6 or lower right???...so if the can survive in .6 lower ph than the more commen 7.0 why could they not adapt in 7.6 or higher mabey you should chceck into that for us all huh

Oh really?
Our clown loach tank has been kept below 5.5 for over a year and a half, and never in the 14 years that I've kept some of these specimens have they been kept above pH 7.5. I don't doubt that they won't 'survive' above this level, but ask yourself what the difference is between 'surviving' and 'thriving'. Keeping clowns at a pH lower than 7 is less stressful for the fish than keeping them at a pH higher than 7. Keeping them below pH 6 is means they are being kept in acidic conditions, which is a lot closer to what their natural conditions are. By keeping them at 7.6+, and the more alkaline you go, the more you are forcing them to live further away from their natural range.

i know alot of people who you disagree with you about keeping loachs and cichlids together

Firstly, the way that sentence has been written doesn't make sense.

Secondly, I accept the fact that not everyone will agree with all of my views on this subject, however, I am betting that the vast majority of serious loach enthusiasts will be of a similar opinion. How many people do you know that have subjected their clowns to a life with Malawi cichlids for a prolonged period (and I'm not talking months here) and have not lost them to various stress related reasons, be it the company they are forced to share, or the water conditions they are forced to endure?

the post is about keeping kubotia in a 29 gallon ......

That could be acceptable, if you know what you are doing that is (and of course providing no Malawi cichlids are present)....

Emma

[mikev]

the post is about keeping kubotia in a 29 gallon ......and my lfs said " Any fish that are called loachs are not as abressive as any fish called botia

Hmmm.... kubotia.... Q-botia.... and not Q-loach . Probably abressive. Keep the cichlids and gouramis away from it, on the off chance your lfs is right.



(Sorry, could not resist the temptation)

[helen nightingale]

Darren you seem to be a little confused

"botias are semi agressive and they get along fin with cichlids acutillay from what i have read botia;s are more agresive than loaches thats why they are called botia insted of loaches"

"Loach" is a general term for certain types of bottom dwelling fish. scientifically, all animals and plants are put into groups according to certain characteristics. they are put into large groups according to some overall characteristsics, then into smaller and more specific subgroups.

an order is a big group covering quite a few difernt types of similar species. the order cypriniformes includes rasboras, danios, botias and other loaches.

after order comes family. both cobitidae and balitoridae are families of loaches. the loaches in different families will have different physical characterists and may come from different types of habitat. loaches in the same family will have a more similar physical makeup.

Botia loaches are placed in the family cobitidae, then in the subfamily botiinae, implying they are more similar to each other than other loaches in the cobitidae family, such as the kuhli loaches. these are in the subfamily cobitinae. so botia are closely related to kuhli loaches, but much more closely related to other botiine species.

botia species may be agressive, but there are also some very placid loaches in the botiinae subfamily. for example, botia striata are definately not agressive fish. the similarities between botia are more to do with their body shape and makeup, numbers of barbels, ray counts, internal similarities, etc, with a range of agressiveness across the subfamily.

some of the more agressive loaches you may be thinking of as "botias" are not actually "botias" in the strict use of the word. Botia robusta are very agressive, and are now called sinibotia robusta. tiger botia are not "botia", they are snycrossus berdmorei, syncrossus beauforti, etc.

a "loach" is a generic term for all these types of fish, and encompasses hillstreams too. Botia refers to a very specific type of loach.

please do some more research from reputable sources (not your shop that sells you loaches and cichlids!)

i would be interested to know why you do not seem to take in what people like Emma have been telling you. they are very experienced and have a huge amount of knowledge that they have been prepared to share with you. PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM

by continually not taking note of what you are told here, people may get the impression you have a low brain cell count. its not that people are holding anything against you, more like concern for you fishes welfare.

if you dont understand why its not a good idea to keep loaches in a tank at the wrong pH, think of it like this. would you like to be locked in a room with a very high carbon dioxide content and not enough oxygen content? you may live for a bit, but you would not feel good! you wouldnt be up to eating properly, growing properly or having sex, let alone raising offspring.[/quote]

[DarrenMnaples]

thank you helen for all of that information you answered alot of questions in that post........and emma yes i have talked to people that have had loaches and cichlids together for years with no casulties but please i dont want to keep going on about this its just the way it is and this is what people do, its just that i am the only one dumb enough to say anything about it on a loach forum.....and yes i think you are 110% correct about trying to keep them in there natrul habitate....but on the other hand would any of us like to be keept in a glass cage for the rest of our lives insted of being free....arnt we all monsters for kidnapping these living creatures to begin with.....please let no one take offence to thes words and shall we drop the whole loach cichlid disscution once and for all thank you