Clown's with ick

[jeep04]

I know you all have probably answered multiple questions regarding ich on Loaches but i have some questions that i cannot find the answers to on the web. I am unable to remove the carbon from my xp4 cannister so if i just take it out of the Emporer 400 will the medicine still do its job. Also do you recommend turning off the lights during treatment, there are some live plants in this tank and i read that with lights off plants deplete H2o as does the meds so i'm worried about low oxygen levels. I did add a powerhead last night, I also just noticed the ich less then 24 hrs ago so i used a half dose of Super Ich Cure. I use APi Liquid test kit and the water seems fine with the PH 7.4,nitrites 0, ammonia 0 and nitrates 20 to 40 hard to tell color difference on test kit. All the fish seem fine, they are eating and i dont see any ich on the Geo's though it is hard to tell due to thier neon blue specks all over thier body. I dont know how this happened, unless taking the Tiger Barbs out of the tank stressed the clown's out since they were his swimming partners. This particular Clown is not part of the other 2 , they dont seem to care for him since he's much smaller but they don't pick on him they just don't socialize with him. Thank you for any help with this and i hope my loaches survive.

[Gary Mck]

I am sure you will get a few different responses from more learned people than I. Having said that I will add my 2 cents as I had an ICK breakout 3 months ago and studied the problem a lot. The investment in a UV filter was the best investment ever made for me. I dropped the water level down, let the powerheads and filters really get the water movement going to get any eggs or freefloating nasties up into the UV filter ASAP and get them zapped. Daily vacum of any dead spots to get rid of any eggs as well. I am thinking this may be enough to get rid of all ICK without Medicine but this is my own personal theory and I would certainly use meds as well.

The Med that I used was Rid Ich, of all the medicines this seems to be the best for Loaches. I scoured all forums a lot and this seems to come up as the best cure. No half doses, full doses were gentle enough. I am pretty sure you will need to get rid of all carbon from your filters as this will neutralise some of the meds compounds. I am sure there is a better qualified person on this foram to give a better informed view but really think you need to get the carbon out.

Ick is a seriuos adversary, treat it like a military excercise, do everything possibly to defeat it ASAP. Once it gets a hold and then gets the upper hand it gets very hard to defeat and will probably take out at least some if not a lot of your fish. Hence get in there and hit it hard with everything you have in the first 24 to 48 hours. Seriously consider a UV filter, when you work out the cost of say a filter versus replacing half your fish, not counting the emoitional aspect, it is a no brainer.

Best of luck with your battle!

[Gary Mck]

Just to add - Diana has written a lot on Ich, do a search of her posts to read up on any questions you may have.

[chefkeith]

Plenty of surface agitation will eliminate the chance of the oxygen getting too low.

I'm curious, why can't you remove the carbon from the XP4? If it's old carbon, its probably clogged up and not effective anymore, but you should take it out anyway.

If the tank was stress free and the ich organism was present, it can live in low numbers, and go unnoticed almost indefinitely. It can stay hidden in the gills until there is a golden opportunity for it to spread. That's why I usually suggest a prophylactic treatment for ich (and other common parasites ) whenever anyone gets new fish. The only real fool proof method to prevent ich is to quarantine and treat all new fish. No exceptions, even if the fish come from a reputable dealer.

+1 on UV Filters

[jeep04]

Thank you for the quick responses, I did not want to remove the chemi pur out of the xp4 because the last time i had it apart the seal is starting to go bad and after a few hrs a finally got it to seal. So until the new one gets here i was trying to not disassemble it, but if i have to i will. I will get one of those uv lights right away. I guess my Red Devil will just have to wait for her 75 gal a little longer. Nobody mentioned upping the temp is this still a good thing to do, I have it up to 84 now its usaully at 80. I was told 80 would keep ich from living in the tank, guess thats not true.

[jeep04]

Also i will do wqter changes daily if thats what is best for the fish. But is it better to do 10% a day or 20 to 30% every few days, i just finished changing about 15 gallons out of the 75gal.

[Gary Mck]

Basically ICH is on the fish in the adult form. There is little you can do to kill them once they are on your fish. Only the egg stage is vulnerable. Once the adult ICH parasites drop off your fish their eggs get deployed, that is when Meds or a UV filter can kill them. IE You want to kill the eggs before they hatch and re attach to your fish and start all over again. I believe the eggs hatch in a 24 to 48 hour period. Upping the temp basically allows the adult form to grow faster, mature, then drop off faster. Hence less time ICH spends in your tank the better.

With temps around 80+ you will probably find that ICH stays on your fish for 10 or so days, or at least this is what I experienced. You will know you are winning the battle if the spots don't get worse after 4 or 5 days, then get progressively better. However when things start to improve don't let up on the treatment at all! Just feel comfortable that your strategy is working and keep going. Most meds say keep treating for 3 days after the last spots are gone on the last fish. Really important to do this as you might find everything comes back and starts again which would of course be devastating.

I believe many years ago the ICH parasite was killed once temps got above 90, however there seems to be certain strains that can still survive even higher temps than that. Likewise these super strains of ICH are resistant to Meds, hence you need a multi faceted attack strategy.

I changed about 15% water per day, ie just a good vacuum of any spots where I know there isn't great water movement. Just to pick up any eggs sitting on the bottom lying just out of reach of the meds or UV filter.

I recommend you sit down and read for an hour or so all of Dianas post on ich. You can just search keywords "ich" and then specify Diana as the author. After this come up with a well defined strategy that you think is best for your situation and then implement it to the letter. I think the most important thing is to get a well planned treatment going ASAP, before it has a chance to get worse.

[jeep04]

Ok i did read alot of Diana's post and i think im going to continue with the higher temps and another dose of Super ich cure. I do have one more question, the first dose of Super ich cure was yesterday about 28 hrs ago but due to the fact that i only used half a dose and i left chem pure in the cannister filter which probably removed most of it. I also did a 25% water change, The directions said to wait 48 hrs and dose a second time but should i do another half dose since most of it was removed either by carbon or the water change. This time i'll remove the chemi pure if that is taking the meds out, i just hope the loss of that does'nt stress the fish more. I'm sorry for these long post's but if i can't recover from the ich this time, it might be time to take up another hobby rather then fish killer.

[Gary Mck]

I know how you feel, I lost my first loaches to ich 1 year ago and thought about giving up my "fish killer" hobby as well. Having said that it is rewarding overcoming adversity and building knowledge. Ultimately it is up to you if you give another dose now, I think it is possibly an option, however I have never used the med, hence it really is your call.

You are doing all the right things and your fish are still eating ok, hence you have a good shot of winning.

[jeep04]

Thank you for that, they are kinda on sleep mode now since thier light turned off so i'm going to wait till the morning instead of adding something that will get them all stirred up. I really appreciate all of your help.