Tank just got bigger, help with 1000 litre, a few ?'s

[Trin20kau]

A bit freaked out, no, it didn't magically grow overnight but it's almost the same.

I'm just getting back into aquaria after not having any tanks for a few years, and I just bought a bargain tank that was described to me as 6ftwx2dx2h, "wow pretty cool" I thought, "I can set up a clown loach tank and have my favourite fish in a permanent home"! Dream come true, all that stuff.

Well I went and took the exact measurements to get the stand built for it (it's currently built into a wall). Turns out the tank measures more like 7x2x2.5, which is fantastic in terms of the footprint and for the fish, but it holds about 300 litres more than I was anticipating. I did want to get a huge tank like this in the future, but not straight away when I'm first getting back into keeping fish! So I'm excited, but also a bit scared that I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this beast.

Anyway, as I said in my intro thread, it comes with a sump running off fluvalfx5 that pumps water back into the tank. I'll try and get some photo's up when I start a journal because I am going to need some help there too later on. chefkeith suggested running the sump separate from the fx5, and adding another canister filter for more circular water flow (with vertical spray bars), which I think I'm going to do. It'll be a fairly long project though I expect, I have seven non-fishy human children to take care of (and one large male non-fish type creature as well), so time and finances are pretty tight.

First question, would a fluval 405 be okay as the second canister? Or do I need more heavy duty?

I'll also add a couple of powerheads in for more water movement, would 2 Aquaclear 110's be sufficient? Or overkill? They won't be added in for a while, initially there will be a community of fish in the tank, like peppered corydoras, pangio loaches and a couple of bristlenose plecos, guppies etc with the clown loaches, but most of them will be moving out as the clown loaches get bigger (that's if I can catch the pangio's). Would it be a good idea to move all of those fish before I add the extra powerheads, or do some of those like the high water flow and current?

I've been reading heaps of old threads...chefkeith if you see this, are you still using the island 3.0 creation? How is that working out? Would you make any changes to it if you were to do it again? I love the idea and want to incorporate some type of island. I have access to no end of drift wood and river stones so that part isn't a problem...just have to work out the idea I want.

Also I've been thinking about the pvc pipe pyramid caves for the loaches...I love the idea but I don't like the look of the pvc pipe. I suppose I could disguise the outside, but I wondered what you guys think of this idea. I live in Australia, and I have a couple of family members who make didgeridoo's, and they always have a few old ones with defects that can't be used for playing. I was thinking of grabbing a couple and cutting them down to the right sizes and making the pyramids out of plain wood. Can you see any problems with that idea? I'd like to grow anubias and stuff on the wood for as long as the loaches let me (haha) so I'm guessing I shouldn't seal the wood with anything, just get it nice and waterlogged and make sure it doesn't change my water parameters before putting it in the tank, is that right?

Whew, I think that's it for now. Please help me, my clown loaches future happiness is in your hands! (Then when you've helped me solve this puzzle, I'll let you rest for about five years before I start picking your brains to help me set up the clown loach aquaponic system I'm planning (no I don't have multiple tank syndrome at all)).

Thanks in advance.

[Trin20kau]

Bump, any opinions?

Also starting to panic about moving such a large tank. I'm planning on hiring a trolley, glass suction cups, and a large trailer to transport it, plus round up a few strong relatives for all the heavy labour part, but I'm worrying more about stressing the fish. The tank is so large the current owners want me to take the fish first and keep them in a spare tank at home while they break down the tank for me to move the next day. I suppose I could do this, but seriously all I have at the moment is a 20 gallon that's fully cycled...the other tanks have JUST been set up and are completely uncycled.

If I took filter media from the filter they have running on the tank, and threw it in my canister that's on my 3 ft uncycled tank, would that be okay for overnight? It's going to be very very small for the fish though...there are 2 clown loaches (4 in and 6 in), a common pleco (10 in), 2 blue dolphin cichlids (6-7 in), a 6 in silver dollar and a lonely adult tiger barb. (I am rehoming everything but the clowns and maybe the tiger barb.)

I am 95% sure these poor guys have been kept in not so great conditions. When I went to inspect and measure the tank, the owner casually remarked that the filter was great, they only had to clean the tank or change the water every couple of months . Just as I'm leaving, I'm told they used to have a lot more fish in there, but they've gradually died off of old age (the tank is about four years old). I looked carefully and none of the fish look diseased or unhealthy, just not as well fed as they could be (they're being fed flake food and algae wafers). I would like to treat them all for worms just as a cautionary, what is the best way to go about that? Levimasole at what dose? Or is it safer to get a commercial worm treatment?

Should I do something special in regards to ich? When I kept clowns before, I had ich once, and killed it quickly with raised temps and a half dose of ich rid (or something with a similar name), but I've read that it's a bit more virulent/resistant now. What would people suggest? Prophylactic treatment? Or just watch carefully for any signs? What is your ich treatment regime?

Also, in future I'll be introducing new clowns to the big tank (after the other fish are gone). What is everyone's quarantine program when they buy new clowns?

Any suggestions? Anyone else moved a large tank who can give me some tips? Much appreciated. (and apologies for all the questions, I promise I'll reward you with pictures ONE day)

[Manda]

The only tip I can give is to HIRE professionals to move the big tank. When I bought my 220 gallon, which weighs a million pounds empty, we used pros to get it into the house. There's no way the two of us could have done it, especially navigating the narrow doorways they had to in order to get it into my office. I'm 95% sure I would have dropped my end and ruined the tank. Unless you have several strong friends who get that a glass tank is NOT a couch, and can't be shimmied, wedged, etc. And then--be very, very sure you put it where you want it.

Good luck, and good job saving those fish!

[Trin20kau]

I'd love to hire professionals...I've actually searched everywhere but I'm in country NSW and there's nothing around for hundreds of miles. I am going to have to get a few of my young strong nephews and pray they just follow my instructions to the letter (I'll probably be hovering around having a quiet breakdown). The place for the tank is all prepared and perfectly level...on a concrete block too so the floor will certainly hold haha. We will be taking it in through a set of sliding glass doors that give us just enough clearance on either side to get it in comfortably, and I'm hiring a flat waist height trolley to support the weight of it as we're moving it, so I'm hoping that will make it easier. I'm placing the plywood for the top of the stand on the trolley with it's 3/4 inch foam on top so that the tank is supported more with a firmer base. Then when we get it home, wheel it in...put bit of glue on top of the wood box frame of the stand and put the plywood on top exactly square. The weight of the tank will hold the plywood down while the glue cures better than anything I could do. Then I still have to replumb the sump and everything, seal that, and let it cure before I even fill it...I'm guessing the earliest I can put the fish back in is the weekend. Ah well, it's all a lesson in patience I guess.

[newshound]

the fish should be okay for a few days if you run filters and don't feed doing some water changes

nice score btw

the bigger the better

[Trin20kau]

Thanks newshound. I'm running filters, doing daily water tests and changes. I'm getting the slightest tinge of ammonia showing up, no nitrites, and around 10-20 nitrates (I had to move the fish here yesterday). Also not feeding them for a few days, and then just lightly. Praying I don't have big issues at this point. Their big tank (yeah, major score, I'm really excited!!) will be here and in place on Saturday, and by Sunday night I'll have resealed it and given it 24 hours to cure. If the fish are still looking happy, I'll give it another day, then fill it and get them back home!

[chefkeith]

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Been very busy lately.

I don't have Loach Island anymore. The 8 ft acrylic tank that the island was in was starting to lose it's integrity, so I tore down the tank, before anything bad happened. I bought a 6ft -125 gallon glass tank to replace it, which was way too small for the island. The island was a nice idea for water flow and shelter, but it had a few drawbacks. One, is that it took up a great deal of tank space and was impossible to get out of the tank in a hurry. I'd have to remove most of the tank water and then remove the center braces, so that I could get the island out. Two, is that I couldn't monitor the health of the fish very well because I couldn't view the inside the main cave where most of loaches would stay and I couldn't see behind the island. Luckily, my fish stayed healthy during the entire 4 years I had the island, but if there were some health issues, I probably wouldn't of been able to respond quickly enough to treat them.

I haven't purchased any new fish in about 7 years, so I haven't had to deal with any deadly pathogens for quite awhile. Getting new fish, and quarantining them properly is the most important and difficult aspect of fish keeping. There is no easy fool proof quarantine method out there. I come to realize that I've invested a lot of time, money, and love into my fishy friends and want to avoid any possibility of contaminating their aquatic home. So I just prefer not to get any new fish from outside sources anymore, but I do breed my own fish from time to time. Such as Boesmani Rainbows and Bristlenose Pleco's. Haven't had any luck breeding the loaches yet. The clowns should live for quite a long time (20+ years), so I shouldn't have to worry much about replacing them for awhile.

Before that, my tanks had a serious ich outbreak that wiped out all but 1 of 30+ clowns. This happened because I bought some new tetra's and only quarantined them for about 3 weeks before adding them to my main tanks. They looked healthy, but I found out the hard way, that ich can infect just the fishes gills for many weeks or months, and show no visible signs of infection.

Now if I were to buy new fish, I'd probably quarantine them for a minimum of 3 months, and do several prophylactic treatments for the most common parasites, even if they don't show any symptoms. What type of medication to treat the fish with is the only question. I'm not sure what wide spectrum internal/external parasite medications are currently on the market. Prazipro was a good one for internal parasites. Not sure what would be good for an ich prophylactic treatment though.

Good luck with moving in the aquarium and getting the fish settled. Would love to see pics!

[Trin20kau]

Thanks very much chefkeith, you've been an enormous help.

Ok, no loach island, just plenty of hiding spaces. Good long quarantine. Photos when I'm done.

[kimura]

I carried an 8x2x2 tank with one friend about 8 years ago. That was the height of my workout
days and there is no way I could do it now haha. Get 4 people!

[mattyd]

I moved my 8ft tank into my house by myself, but I had it loaded at origin into a big van with help, and I took 2 hours to move it carefully 15 meters from my driveway into my loungeroom. The tank is still sitting empty because I need to stain and waterproof the cabinet. No idea why I didn't pay the cabinet maker to stain it when they built it... I've had the tank for 12 months and all it is doing is taking up room. My clown loaches have now forgotten who I am because they are in a 6ft tank in my garage and only see me a few times a day.

When it is time to move into my own home I will hire removalists to move just the tank and cabinet. I'm only renting, but I've been in this house for 5 years, and will probably be here for another 12-18months. I think removalists are the 'professional' idea.

I'm with every one who is advising strongly of quaranteening. I made the mistake of not properly quaranteening and medicating 15 kubotai loaches. I left them in a quaranteen tank for 3 months, but didn't medicate them. They all looked strong and healthy so I moved them into the established tank with my zebra and other smaller loaches. Now I have some sick ones, and I have no idea what is causing it.

[Trin20kau]

Yes, my tank is still sitting empty too, I have to replace some of the bulkheads which were either non existent, or cracked, and held together with masses of silicone. I'm waiting on the bulkheads to be delivered, then I'll finish everything off.

So mattyd, quarantining...I'm going to do that with the new fish I'm ordering. When you say medicating, what would you dose them with before introducing to the main tank? How long would you normally quarantine new fish? Some places say 4 weeks, which seems a bit short to me...there's no rush to put them in the main tank if they're happy and being fed up well in a smaller tank, so I don't mind doing an extended quarantine.

[mattyd]

It all depends where you get your fish from. If you get them from a fellow fish keeper from somewhere else in NSW or VIC or ACT, you'll be more able to trust that the fish are all healthy. If you get any fish from a fish store, then they are more likely to be carrying something that you won't want to introduce into your tank.

If you get any fish from a pet-store, I would quarantine them. There are probably better articles in the fish health forum, but I would suggest treating for Ich (white spot) for 3-4 days, then a dewormer for 3-4 days (Big L is a product I use, it contains levamisole), and maybe back to white spot treatment, and then back to dewormer. White spot is common in pet store fish, so this is why I have recommended treating for that. And I would suggest fully following the treatment cycle for it. After a fll cycle of White spot treatment, I would do the dewormer followed with antibiotics for 3-4 days, but in Australia we can't get access to the Maracyn products that is highly recommended by our international friends. If you know a doctor or vet as a personal friend, you could probably ask them to prescribe you a small amount of each raw product. Then you could do some math and do some chemistry and follow some guidelines online and treat the water at the right dosage. I think I am going to have to do that, unless I can work out a way of importing the product into Australia from the US or UK/Europe.

I would love our international counterparts to offer a suggestion for products that we might be able to buy here in Australia. Australian regulatory offices prevent the sale of antibiotics, in any form, without a prescription. And Maracyn and Maracyn 2 are both products containing antibiotics.

[cider]

hi, i have been following this thread, the tank sounds like it will be a great home for your loaches !

concerning meds, there is a product, not sure if available to you but it it a preventative for ich and other probs, made by EASY-LIFE , name is VOOGLE . you can google it, it is made in Holland, all natural and safe for scaleless fish. It can be used as a prevention or as a treatment for ich. I use it when adding new fish to my q-tank, and after rescaping ,which stresses fish as we all know, so i toss some in , it comes with a measuring cup. HTH , G

[Trin20kau]

Thanks very much mattyd, that's great help. I'm getting some bristlenoses from a friend who breeds them and looks after them well. The rest of the fish I'm ordering from livefish.com.au and aquagreen. My local vet is excellent, so I'll have a word in their ear and see what I can do about the maracyn.

Thanks cider! It's taking forever to set up, but the wait is part of the fun. I will definitely have a look for Voogle and check it out. It's not easy finding meds for scaleless fish locally.