75 gallon tank with clown loaches

[tomryan01]

I am planning my 75 gallon residents and right now it is 2 different schools of neon tetra, harlequin raspora. In addition there will be 3 rainbow fish and 3 angel, 1 placo and now the question I am asking how many clown loaches. I keep reading that they should be in groups of 5. Is that too many or not. In addition the aquarium is well planted with lots of nooks, crannies and caves for them.

Cn I pull off 5 or not

[bookpage]

Welcome to the forum. Clowns do need 5-6 in a group, but not for the the size aquarium that you have. Clowns get much too large for a 75 gallon tank. You might get by for a year, if they are the only fish in the tank. They need a long length tank to swim in with a min of six feet. You might like to read this: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus

[NancyD]

A 75g is ok for a few years until the loaches outgrow it, probably in +/- 5 years if gotten small. I had small clowns & angels & the loaches nocturnal activity spooked the sleeping angels. The angels would freak out & hit the tank top even though the loaches didn't behave aggressively toward them. A smaller loach species like botia histrionica or kubotai would be a better choice for your tank long term & both are more day active.

[redshark1]

It may be difficult to tell when the Clown Loaches outgrow the 75 gallon aquarium.

I feel it is likely that they will be stunted in a sub-optimal sized aquarium and will stop growing at a size below their potential as mine have. But I personally believe they will be capable of being healthy in that state.

However, given your current stock I would have said that I would consider the tank fully stocked already. Also, my Sailfin pleco did not get on with my Clown Loaches and was a terror at night. Small fish like tetras may be too small to be safe or may be stressed by Clowns. Angels can be very aggressive when defending a spawning territory.

Of course most of the twenty million Clown Loaches exported from their native lands would do well to land in a 75 gallon, but now we are enlightened as to their needs many of us would wish to keep them in aquaria within which they could reach their maximum size.

This information came too late for me and I was advised by my trusted aquarium retailer to keep my Clown Loaches in a 3' aquarium. I had always wanted a larger tank however, hence I purchased a 6' aquarium of 90 uk gallons.

At 8" in length and 19 years old I was surprised to find my fish are regarded as stunted (to a certain extent) but I am not intending to purchase a larger aquarium due to spatial and financial considerations. That is my choice.

Were I starting again with Clown Loaches I would be looking for the 6' x 2' x 2' often recommended here and hoping that would be sufficiently large to allow them full growth.

I have seen a 12" Clown Loach but it's aquarium was approximately half the size of my living room so much bigger than 6' x 2' x 2' .

I am partly consoled by the fact that I have read an account by a scientist who researched the Clown Loach native habitat and talked to local fishermen who actually told him that the adult Clown Loach they caught were between 8" and 10" in length. I wish I were able to reference it here but I was less precise and less connected then.

Below is a picture of my largest Clown Loach named Anthia, not less than 8" and over 19 years old now. Feeding and obvserving them is a daily source of pleasure adding significantly to the enjoyment of my life.

I hope you enjoy the discussion and my picture.

[Loachloach]

I am partly consoled by the fact that I have read an account by a scientist who researched the Clown Loach native habitat and talked to local fishermen who actually told him that the adult Clown Loach they caught were between 8" and 10" in length. I wish I were able to reference it here but I was less precise and less connected then

I came across such info once myself. Just because there's some large ones here and there,it doesn't mean it's the norm.If you think logically and compare to other species, some grow larger in aquariums than their natural habitat,although some grow smaller. Then the gene factor comes into play and in most cases stunting due to tank size is totally unproven. There are tons of other factors and the main ones are poor water quality and starvation/improper diet. Any fish should keep growing with no issues as long as these factors are eliminated,and eventually visibly outgrow the tank if its ever going to happen. Whoever told you that a 19 years of age 8" clown loach is stunted was just being mean. I am not saying they won't be happier in larger tanks.Generally there's no tank big enough for any fish we keep. But its easier keeping up with the water quality if the tank is bigger and the fish will be happier. So keeping clowns in an adequate tank for the size they currently are and a bit extra should't be a problem untill they start outgrowing it visibly when one should be ready to give them more space. A clown loach can become stunted in any tank size, so can a guppy in 200g for example.

I have a sole guppy female left from my own fry that stayed small and didn't seem to grow for over a year,like an endler female but even smaller. Then I had to put some platy fry with her for a while and because of that I fed the tank several times a day for 2-3 months and to my surprise the female guppy who had been an adult for a long time, suddenly grew up She had a massive growth spurt at the ripe guppy age of 15 months. So the problem was the scarce feeding all along

I also hate it when someone comments about common plecos, like an automated machine they say commons grow to 20" or 1-2f and if your pleco at this and this age is smaller, its stunted, blah, blah,etc.... When you look at the species often considered "commons", some of them max out at half that size. Sailfin plecos like the gibbiceps grow big, but some of their similar looking brothers and sisters don't at all.

By the way the clown on the picture is the most beautiful big clown loach i've ever seen. It's very colourful and healthy looking.

[Loachloach]

I don't know how creditable this info is,but here is what seriously fish says about clown loaches maximum size:

Maximum Standard Length

Supposedly exceeds 400 mm but reports from its native rivers suggest an average adult size between 200 – 305 mm, borne out by the largest aquarium specimens we know of.

It’s possible that very old female individuals might grow bigger but this is likely to take a long time since growth tends to slow down considerably once the fish reach 150 – 200 mm.

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ch ... racanthus/

[bookpage]

Also on that website: A tank with base measurements of 180(70.8") ∗ 60 cm or equivalent is the absolute minimum required to house a group, and young specimens should only be grown on in smaller aquaria if several partial water changes are conducted each week.

[DainBramage1991]

In my youth, I bought a pair of juvenile channel catfish and put them in my 55 gallon tank. Within 18 months they had gone from 3" to nearly 18", in a 12" wide tank. Needless to say, I had to give them up (they went to a friend who owned an aquarium store).

More recently I added a featherfin catfish to my collection. He had been at the local store for several months with no takers, so I finally gave in and added him to my main tank. In the store he had been about 3" long and skinny (not emaciated, just thin) and had stayed that size for at least 3 months. Within a month of being in my tank, he has become fat and grown at least an inch. In fact, he has come close to outgrowing one of my other featherfins, which has been in my tank for over a year.

The moral of the story is that, in my option, fish have no idea what the dimensions of the tank are and will keep growing as long as living conditions are good. Also, every fish is an individual and will only grow as fast and as large as he is genetically predisposed to.

Last but not least, I'm currently keeping 8 juvenile clown loaches in a 90 gallon tank. I don't feel the least bit of guilt about this, as my fish are healthy, growing at a good rate, personable, and apparently happy. I know that there will come a time years from now that I'll need to consider a larger tank, but in the mean time I am not worried about their growth being stunted. After all, the tank is 16 fish lengths long and 6 fish lengths wide, using my largest clown (who is 3" long) as a reference. Even when they get to 6" in length (as 2 of my featherfins are already), they will still have plenty of room to move around.
Large tanks are nice, and bigger is always better, but keeping clowns in a 6x2x2 foot tank is the ideal, not the minimum. They can thrive just fine in a smaller environment, as long as their needs are met.

[Loachloach]

Also on that website: A tank with base measurements of 180(70.8") ∗ 60 cm or equivalent is the absolute minimum required to house a group, and young specimens should only be grown on in smaller aquaria if several partial water changes are conducted each week.

Correct. This is the accepted norm for clown loaches but any fish would benefit from that and larger tank size when adults but they aren't normally grown from fry straight into a large tank. There's no home aquarium large enough for any fish. If we are talking about stunting,then the size of tank won't stunt them when they are kept in a tank suitable for their current size, the water quality is kept to what they require and they are fed suitable diet. These articles also refer to fish we can't breed yet in aquarium really but if you take the text literally I would love to see you growing fry and "young specimens" in a tank measuring 180x60cm and above and manage to keep all alive.
And clown loaches are sensitive to organic build up, hence the "several partial water changes" comment above. So are discus and many other fish, but you can still raise them properly in "smaller" tank till they reach adulthood if you know what they require.
There's a scientific article i read once(i can try to find it if you like), not specifically about clown loaches, however the numerous experiments lead to the conclusion that the most sensitive fish and inverts should not be kept in nitrate levels above 8-9ppm and this is also the norm. How many people in fresh water tanks do that? If you ask someone they'd tell you below 40ppm. They won't die but it can cause all kinds of problems, obviously one of them stunting, long term organ and tissue damage,etc...If you do keep clown loaches yourself, may i ask you what your nitrate levels are and how much and how often do you do water changes? What's the TDS? You can have you entire house flooded to keep clown loaches and they still could be stunted and unhappy. A 75g is plenty enough for a few years if you know what your clown loaches require and you are consistent with it. And 6 clown loaches + dither in a 75g may happen to live healthier than 20 clown loaches + dither in 180x60x60(171g),for the simple reason that you are increasing the water volume just 2.3 times, but the fish quantity is increased 3.3 times, leading to worse water quality. If you keep just 6 clowns in a 170g tank,then i'd agree with you but most big tanks circling around are literally jammed with clown loaches, mostly pale looking ones and on top of it everyone comments what a nice setup

[andrew45]

The 75 gallon tank is good for loaches up to some extent. But problem arises when its growth stage comes. Its growth is very
difficult in 75 gallon with lot of fishes. And it is difficult to change the tank at this stage. So it is better to start with big tank
or at least 90 gallon should be used.