What loach did I get?

[Bas Pels]

In October, I visited a fishshop, and they had a nice group of loaches. I went home with 6

They were imported among a group of Rhinegobius Wui, but clearly they are not.

a few pictures:
http://s6.photobucket.com/user/bas12345 ... sort=1&o=0
a portrait

more of the fish


and more recent


from aside, the fishes look as if they are laterally compressed. However, they are not, they are just as broad as high

What species do I have? They are in a 75 * 70 * 30 cm tank, together with Puntius titeya and Oryzias javanicus @ 23 C

[Greek]

It's highly probable that You have some Parabotia sp.. It can be P. fasciata or P. lijiangensis. It's hard to specify precisely, because Your fish isn't clearly coloured (You can compare by looking at some photos of fish I wrote above).

In October, I visited a fishshop, and they had a nice group of loaches. I went home with 6

[...]
What species do I have? They are in a 75 * 70 * 30 cm tank, together with Puntius titeya and Oryzias javanicus @ 23 C

And that's a good example why buying fish, which we can't identify is always very bad idea.
Firstly - those loaches grow too large to be kept in that tiny tank.
Secondly - those are subtropical fish, and requires a cooler water than other popular species do. They cannot be kept with javanese ricefish, which needs a temperature about 25C and higher.

[Bas Pels]

Thank you

While I do agree a tiny little fish can become a monster, and therefore one should take care when buying unknown fish, I think I will manage

I already expected them to be subtropical - R wui is subtropical too, but I happen to be expecially active with subtropical fishes.

I got 9 tanks which go to 10 C in winter, all 125 - 140 cm. I further got 8 6 @ 140 cm length, 2 @ 200 cm, reaching 5 C in winter. All tanks can reach 25 C in summer.

Looking at the profile for Parabotia, the latter seem to be a bit too cold, but I will look further. Regarding the body shape, P fasciatus looks the most similar, but perhaps more Parabotia species exist.

For now I think I will winter them in this tank - the cool ones are now at their coolest, and then I will try catching them without distrubing the plants too much. A trap might be the best option

[Greek]

Reaching 5C or even 10C in winter will be definitely too cold temperature for them - river species can't stand that high annual amplitudes.
On the other hand - wintering them in this tank is really bad idea because of their dimensions (but if You say about only that winter - that's ok).
Can't You use heater in one of those too-cold-in-winter tanks?

Also I have to point that keeping Oryzias javanicus with R. wui and those parabotias (even for a few months) won't be good for them - ricefishes need definitely warmer water.

[Bas Pels]

Looking on the internet for Parabotia species, I see these originate from te area Hongkong and Vietnam in the south, up to Shanghai and further.

Books on fishkeeping give, for subtropical fishes, as a rule far too high temperatures. I keep fish from Montevideo, Uruguay, where tha average temp all year is 16 C, and books suggest keeping these fish @ 18 - 24 C. I think I better keep them as they face in the wild, with a few weeks @ 8 C

Climate for Hongkong is on average 16 C in winter (2-3 months) to 30 C in summer, but 4 C has been measured. For Shanghai a winter is normally @ 10 C for 3 months

However, these fishes come from fast moving water, which is normally found in mountains, and is always cooler than the surrounding air, due to the fact the water is rapidly flowing from higher altitudes.

My estimate is, the water where my Parabotia were found was 6-10 C in January. Therefore, I'm quite confident Parabotia is a fish which will not have any problem withstanding temperatures around 10 C for a few months.

Unfortunately, the Rhinegobius were sold when I got the Parabotia, as what I found was - the name Rhinegobius Wui is a name fused in trade, Fishbase does not even have it, for almost all fishes from this genus. Therefore, if I had got some of these Rhinegobius, these could have helped me narrowing the collecting area further down.

I think a tank of 140 * 50 * 50 cm will suffice for these Parabotia. Rocks I have plenty, a few plants perhaps and not that much wood (wood is a bit of a water polluter, and wood would fow away from fast moving water anyway). And some companions - which might not be that easy to find.

For the ricefish I agree, I will need to provide them with warmer water. And after that, I will need to find another fish suitable for the higher zones of the tank

[mikev]

Parabotia -- great find.

I recall that l.disparis shipments from HK used to include rhinogobius as well as a fish that *looked like* small schistura, but might have been young parabotia.....

Unfortunately, the Rhinegobius were sold when I got the Parabotia, as what I found was - the name Rhinegobius Wui is a name fused in trade, Fishbase does not even have it, for almost all fishes from this genus. Therefore, if I had got some of these Rhinegobius, these could have helped me narrowing the collecting area further down.

R.wui is an old name, valid is R.duospilus. HOWEVER: most shipments of R.wui are not this species but another member of the cluster, usually Rhinogobius xianshuiensis --- these are similar, also white cheeks, and most references on the web to R.wui/R.duospilus actually show this species or variants. True R.duospilus are not common.

I have kept R.xianshuiensis in the past and keep true ones now.

[Bas Pels]

So, chanses are high my Parabotia are coming from the area of Rhinogobius xianshuiensis

one of the few I can know where they come from - an area or river named xianshui

The Chinese area xianshui is form the north of Shanghai, in fact it lies on the same lattitude of the south tip of South Korea

Xianshui River gives 2 hits in Google Earth

one 400 km north-west from Hongkong, the other some 3000 km due west of Shanghai.

That is, I can choose to decide to keep my Parabotia
A the area - cool sub-tropical
B the western river - cold landclimate. This area is frozen over in winter and steeming hot in summer
C the eastern river, near Hongkong High altitude Sub tropical

Both A and C come, basically, down to 10 C in winter en 20 - 25 C in summer. However, the C winter will last only 2 months, while the A winter will last 4 - 5.

[Greek]

You're making a two wrong assumptions:
- firstly - that temperature of the air equals the temperature of water
- secondly - You place those fish in one place, forgeting that loaches are migrative species.

And what's more - searching for those species in cool landclimate/cool climate is definitely wrong. Here You've got some maps with distributions of Parabotia sp.:
http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=180808
http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=166206
http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=181338
http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=187936

All sources give information that all Parabotias (esp. P. fasciata) require temperatures between 18 and 24C, sometimes they give information that not less than 20C is better.

[mikev]

third wrong assumption -- that if the fish came together to your lfs it was caught together. Instead, all too often the exporters mix different catches.