Hillstream ID

[mikev]

Jim and Martin pointed this out to me, with regards to the eating habits. These chaps are Hunters, mine love to hide or wait near mid levels and once they see the Brine shrimp floating past....Bang! they attack in one fast movement.

I have to admit that I got them because of the word "Hunters" used by Jim in some previous thread. Your description is exactly what I saw happening yesterday: very quick grabs, like a snapping turtle.
I think they need some time to adjust: right now they are hiding properly, relying only on staying put and blending into the groud, and reacted only to the food that floats within 1cm of the fish. I think this is why they ignored the bloodworms: those never floated close. But I did not see any bloodworms left in the morning, so hopefully they were more relaxed in the dark.

interesting they are not eating bloodworms, though. I suspect that will change.

I might have offered them too soon (an hour after I put the fish in, I know this was not a good idea.) I'll try again tonight.

Right now my impression is that they are a bit slow/less active (comparing to other lizards I have or schisturas), but does not feel like a disease. No bodies found in the morning, but only five counted: they are really good in hiding in an almost empty tank.

[Jim Powers]

This species tends not to skitter about like other "lizard fish".
Their movements are definately more gecko-like and low key.
They are among the most laid back hillstreams I have ever seen...at least until food floats by.

[Graeme Robson]

I agree with Jim. For some reason i think these reserve their energy for the fast attacks on foods. Or just plain lazy with the capability of camouflage. Or all!!

[mikev]

This species tends not to skitter about like other "lizard fish".
Their movements are definately more gecko-like and low key.
They are among the most laid back hillstreams I have ever seen...at least until food floats by.

Got you. I expected the opposite...you know "Hunter"..."Killer". I guess this means they are totally safe to other hillstreams.

What is truly fascinating about the hillstreams is that one sees really different modes of behavior every time.

Quite obviously Smithi's are not Confuzona or Vanmanenia or my alleged H.Hoffmani. Four styles in very similar body shapes.

Just out of curiosity: are the Tweedies different only in the fin layout, or it is again a new experience?

Incidentally, it was very funny to watch the small one eating yesterday. First few pieces it actually swallowed. Then it was grabbing more shrimp, but each time, after a few seconds, it made a totally identical motion to spit it out. Back-and-forth.

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One more question: I do think now they all are one species. There were a couple at the store that did have Gastro-like red in tails. Is it something worth going back for? (I looked at all Smithi photos I could find and did not see anything like this.)

[mikev]

One more issue of a general character I've been thinking about:

what is the right temp regime for acclimation of hillstreams?

We all suffer losses with new fish way too often so I'd like to see how to do things better.

Previously, I tried to keep stable temperature in midlow-70s.

With this new fish, it is an honest unheated tank, with temp varying probably between 68F and 73F, depending on the time of the day. This, I'd think, is very close to the natural conditions.

The question is which is better for *new fish* which is likely not in the best conditions, do the temp swings help or hurt?

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BTW, in checking the temp, I went to fishbase and noticed that they give sizes for Smithi and Tweedie: 6cm and 4cm. I'm fairly sure that 6cm is wrong, even my largest one probably exceeds it. And if the Tweedies were indeed limited to 4cm, you would have used the size diff to ID the fish. So much for fishbase....

[Jim Powers]

I had one Tweediei a few years ago and it acted just like all the smithi I have had. As far a temps for acclimation, I think the low to mid 70's is fine.
In regards to the red on the tails, it seems some smithi have a fair amount of red and others have little.
Someone has posted pics of some very red fish, but I can't remember who. Maybe Mark or Graeme.

[mikev]

Thanks, Jim,

True Tweedies: I'm a bit curious what the shipments marked "Tweedie Loaches" actually contain, so I'll keep an eye for these. But Tweedies are off my "wanted" list.

Red Smithi: I think you are referring to a thread from Mark, Red Dragon, that no longer has an image, but seems to talk about the body color rather than the fin color. I mean a little red in the tail, like Martin's Gastro:
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2587
OK, if I can make it back before they killed the rest of the fish...

[Jim Powers]

I have seen pics of smithi with red on the tails and fins, not just the body.

[Martin Thoene]

Mike....Go back to the Red Dragon thread. I edited the URL so the pic works now.

VERY RED!

I've kept smithi with various Gastromyzons without a problem. I totally would not trust them in a tank with Hillstream fry though. They are lightning quick hunters.



Martin.

[Jim Powers]

I put them in my orginal river tank when I had chenis and disparis spawning and noticed the number of babies diminished soon after.
However, after a bit, it rose to previous levels. I think that bloodworms must taste better than hillstream fry.

[mikev]

Mike....Go back to the Red Dragon thread. I edited the URL so the pic works now.

VERY RED!

Holy cow!
This is one really magnificent fish...I see what you mean.
Thank you for restoring the picture, I'll add it to the "Pointers" list.

I think they are much more attractive when they sit in a "hillstream position" like in your bottom photo.

I've kept smithi with various Gastromyzons without a problem. I totally would not trust them in a tank with Hillstream fry though. They are lightning quick hunters.

Yuck, more really bad news. I was actually hoping that one day someone will breed here and you just killed my current plan. Thank you very much..

OK, it seems that they will end up with Beaufortias, Hoffmanni and Schisturas. No breeding to expect, and Smithi's should be strong enough to withstand the Hoffmanni and the Beaufortias (who both can be pretty nasty).

I may have one more hillstream species in a few days which will create finally a real mess.

I have seen pics of smithi with red on the tails and fins, not just the body.

Understood, thank you. Actually, thank God too, eight is more than enough (but they ARE pretty).

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Append. Well, at least one eats bloodworms. But it is a real pain to feed them. I dropped the bloodworms, no reaction whatsoever, like they are dead. (In the tank next to it, Vanmanenias and Haras show up right away). I chose one random fish and stared at it for five minutes without moving as it was watching a bloodworm -- then suddenly a quick move, bloodworm dissappears and the fish is back to the exact same position as before. Unbelievable. Possibly, I was scaring them, because now, from the other end of the room, I see some jumping in the tank.

These guys are no hunters, they are muggers and extreme cowards. Hopefully, they will improve with time, otherwise I cannot put them with any other fish, they'll simply starve.

I'll get them some PVC tomorrow, maybe it will make them feel happier.

[mikev]

I wonder if they eat anything but brine shrimp and bloodworms ?
(they don't here so far).

Because if these are the only foods, there is no way they would survive with any other fish around, they are way too slow in getting to the food. A kuhli would run circles around them...

[Jim Powers]

I have seen mine snap at a flake floating by, but primarily, they eat just the bloodworms and brine shrimp. I think you would be surprised how much they find on there own. I have a big (female?) that is over 2 inches that doesn't often come out for food but keeps getting larger.

[mikev]

Yes, exactly what I see here: there are some attempt on small flakes. But as for pellets/wafers: zero interest.

Hope you are right. My best option is to put them in a 29g with Danios, Schisturas (3 small ones) and Gastros. There will be almost no bloodworms and shrimp that will make it through Danios and Schisturas. Gastros should manage since they take algae wafers, there is some algae, and they seem to like dyadems too.

[Jim Powers]

You could always do what I do and use a feeding tube to get the bloodworms to the areas you want them. This is particularly helpful in tanks with current which is all of mine.
Just got to one of your local fish stores and look for the lengths of rigid clear plastic tubing. It comes in various sizes. I go for the size that is about as big around as my little finger. I'm not sure what the diameter is. Maybe 1cm or 3/8in. or something like that. I cut it to various lengths according to the tank depth (I have one for each tank) and use it like a siphon. I put a finger over one end stuff the bloodworms or brine shrimp in the other put it underwater and release the finger, drawing the food into the tube. You can then put your finger back over the end and let the food come out where you want it to. Remember playing with a drinking straw like this when you were a kid?(minuts the bloodworms of course )
Anyway, you can direct food in front of fish if you want. I have had smithi that ate out of the end, as well as sinogastromyzon wui, sinobotia, botia, etc. Its fun to watch and you know who is eating. Some fish are a bit scared, but will often learn that its an easy way to get food.