Hillstreams getting into a powerhead?

[mikev]

Is it possible for a hillstream to get into a powerhead through the outtake (against the current)?

I lost one more of my lizards, and I'm at a total loss of what is going on. It is beginning to look like a chain of accidents: all three bodies were damaged, one was missing the head, and the last one was really only a piece of the middle (no head, no tail, skinned). It is very hard to believe that so much damage could be done by other fish or bacteria within 24 hours, so I'm inclined to think that there is something in the tank that actually kills the fish.

The tank contains a heater, sponge filter, HOB and a powerhead; it has to be one of the latter two. HOB intake is protected (it is an AquaClear), and I keep the water level low so that they don't climb via the HOB outtake. The powerhead outtake..all the way to the machinery appears to be the likeliest scenario right now. The fish in question are lizard loaches, with good aerodynamic shape and excellent suction and it likes going against the current too... And it is certainly suicidal: one did climb to a HOB through the outtake before and got seriously damaged (HOB was changed to a safer model).

Q1: is it possible? Did anyone see anything like this?
Q2: is there anything I can do to protect against this?
(I cannot cover the outtake with fabric, it defeats the purpose of a powerhead. I'm not sure I can keep hillstreams without a powerhead in a tank for long either...)

[Real darn. I'm having problems with this specific species all the time, and it happens to be my favorite hillstream sp. too....]

[wasserscheu]

this is very unfortunate, I am sorry about that.

I still have NO Idea where one of my Aborichtys went, no trace at all...I think he left the tank, I checked the floor below the cabinet - no trace... or he digged too deep and trapped himself somewhere...or even the filter-outlet-but w/out remains?! .... the catfish?! - no...

To secure the Powerhead-outlet, I personally would get some plastic toothpicks drill little holes from the side - run the toothpicks through - and so design a save barrier. perhaps glue the sticks with hotmelt outside the pipe, or superglue, if material allows, (cyan acrylate is medical OK as long as it is hardened through, takes moisture to cure...) or slide a piece of flexible pipe over the outlet, so the sticks can not escape to the side.

To be perfect, you may grind the toothpicks (or other) to Wing-like cross section, to avoid spoiling of waterflow (low resistance). Even more perfect would be, to not have all sticks at the same spot, this way you do not decrease the outlet cross section in one point... friction goes exp3 with speed, low diameter means higher speed...

If worried about decreased crosssection, you may stick a bigger diameter pipe on the outlet, put the above described design into the add-on. Has the benfit of easy removal for cleaning etc...

it´s a little overkill, I know... just stick something in there, spaced by the desired size of fish you want to lock out.

Good luck...

Wolfram

[crazie.eddie]

IMO, since loaches like current, they probably think they are swimming upstream when they swim towards the outlet of your filter (against the current). So they may have gotten damaged.

Just curious. What other fish are in the tank?

[mikev]

Thanks, Wolfram,

I think I'm going to do what you suggest within a day or two, I'm still trying to see if there is another way they can get hurt. The theory is too crazy(not that I have another one now).

Did anyone actually experienced or heard about fish entering the powerhead from the outtake?

(yeah, the powerhead in question is Rio90, it seems to be a bit weaker than AquaClear. Any bad experience with this model?)

I still have NO Idea where one of my Aborichtys went

Do you have an undergravel filter? This is where kuhlis usually dissappear (not mine, but I heard this several times). I think Aborichtys has similar psychology.



crazie.eddie,

They are certainly not swimming in, this would be impossible. They may be creeping in. There was no other fish at the time of previous incidents, right now the tank has Hara (1" catfish): I don't expect them to try to do something similar.

[NancyD]

Mike, sorry about your fish. I don't know if it will work on your powerhead but I've used the plastic mesh from bags that onions etc come in attached with a rubber band to restrict access to tubes. Not pretty though. (I also use it for algae scrubbing on glass)
Nancy

[mikev]

NancyD,

Thank you -- a brilliant idea (I'm not on the Wolfram's level of quality work). Pretty does not matter.

The fact that you had to do this seems to be an indication to me that the guess is not totally crasy.

[Emma Turner]

Although not quite the same species, we had a problem with our Sinibotia pulchra swimming into the powerhead outflows on the river tank manifold. Even though the flow diverter bits are quite long, and the current very strong, these fish would get their heads right inside, and seemed to be trying to get in even further. We decided that we couldn't risk them getting hurt, so we took of the flow diverter pieces off of the front of the powerhead and heated them up with a hot air gun. The plastic then became soft enough to pinch slightly, so that the gap was reduced and once cooled down, the fish couldn't then physically get in. Ok it may have reduced the flow down slightly, but not by that much, and now it is safe for all fish.

Emma

[mikev]

Emma,

Thanks a lot for the confirmation.

For now, I went with Nancy's solution (several layers of onion nets, since the fish is small and might try to squeeze through), just that I can leave home without thinking about this happening again. I'll try to figure out something more permanent if the accidents stop.

[wasserscheu]

I like both, off Nancy´s Ideas... they are very effective, for low effort.

I currently clean algae with filter-cotton, the scrubbed off algea stay than in the cotton... I just like the net idea though...

Wolfram

[mikev]

I was so concentrated on the current problem (who cares about the algae when you have suicidal fish?), I managed not to notice the 2nd Nancy's idea. Sure, this is a good one too. Thanks.

BTW, I think I did solve my dyadem issue: firstly, you were right, it started diminishing on its own as the real green algae showed up. But after I moved the Gastros into the tank about a week ago I noticed the glass is slowly getting cleaner...

[NancyD]

Glad it's working for you, I first used it on a siphon with dangerously curious sids. You might want to look for plastic grid in craft stores (even walmart, called plastic needle point canvas) for a more fitted look. Comes in different grid sizes & even colors. People use it for all kinds of fish stuff, tank dividers etc. I've only used it in a non-fish way but it's cheap.
Nancy