Two foot river tank

[mikev]

Extrapolating too much Mike. It was their Q-tank which kind of grew into being their permanent home.

You know how that goes

I do. The same thing happened to my Vannies.
(Still, the net effect is the same: you have a Gastro species tank and nothing happened. Just like with the Vannies here, but I still hope...)

Best luck with the Spotties....

[TammyLiz]

I went to the LFS today and they had two tiny beaufortia gasping in the corners of severely underoxygenated tropical tanks. The sad thing is this place gives terrible advice and none of my attempts to say anything about the way they keep certain species have been effective at all. They'll probably tell someone with an overstocked underfiltered 5 gallon tropical tank that it'd be perfect for clearing out their brown algae, or something equally ridiculous, and those cute little babies will be dead within the week. Am I right to think I should resist anyways? I read the profile here and it said they don't back down from a fight.

They also had a trio of danios labled "Purple Passion", and I think they were the roseus you were talking about Martin. There were only three, though, and they were picking on each other, probably a symptom of being in such a small group.

Whenever I go to the LFS I want to bring everything home. Its dangerous. I can't believe I walked out empty handed. There were probably two or three other things I would have loved to get.

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EDIT: I got a reply about the danios from the person I had asked. I had forgotten he is a member here, too, but doesn't post much (the-wolf). He said to just do whatever I want because he doubts the gastros will bother any of them and as long as the group is large enough none of the danios should pick on each other much more than any other kind. I had also been admiring his picture of erythromicron in his profile and he said although they are tiny they'd work, too. Ahh! Do I really have to make my own decision? JK.

[mikev]

Am I right to think I should resist anyways? I read the profile here and it said they don't back down from a fight.

Also from the profile:

These battles can be quite entertaining to watch and seldom result in any damage.

Both statements are correct. Fights are mostly about the WILL, not the STRENGTH. This is what makes them entertaining.

If they look healthy and you have a spare Q-tank (or new tank), I'd certainly grab them. You should be able to find a couple more later.

[Jim Powers]

mikev wrote:

Maybe the presense of larger Danios suppresses their natural evil instincts?
(similar things seem to happen with loaches)

Actually, I have a school of pure chopraes in one tank and while they chase each other constantly, there are no torn fins.
I also have a mixed school of roseus, kyathit and choprae and it is the roseus that are the most aggressive. I haven't seen any torn fins there either, though. Maybe those Canandian danios are just meaner.

TammyLiz, "Purple passion" danios are roseus.

[TammyLiz]

Am I right to think I should resist anyways? I read
If they look healthy and you have a spare Q-tank (or new tank), I'd certainly grab them. You should be able to find a couple more later.

Weeell, the health of the fish at this place is the exact reason why I can't stand going there very often anymore. I said two before, but now that I am reviewing what I saw with thoughts of going back to get them, I remember that I saw a third one before I left as I was talking to an employee about something else. It looked a little white around the face. You know what I'm talking about. It was in the tank with another that looked healthy, and in the next tank over there was another that was, as I was saying, gasping very heavily. So cute with those fins moving around trying to get the water to flow over the gills more. I felt so sorry for that one in particular.

The 8 or 10 five inch green spotted puffers laying curled up on the bottom of the opposite freshwater tank covered with ich didn't make me feel any better about the way they treat their stock. The last time I visited here I actually stormed out in a huff because things were so bad and employees were just standing around giving terrible advice. When I told the customer that I disagreed (his fish were going to die if he followed the advice, I have no doubt. His tank was in an emergency situation and the employee was telling him to stop doing water changes) the employee looked me straight in the eye and told me I was wrong and who do you think the customer was going to believe? Rarr! You don't do that to a pregnant woman!

I could go back and get them and treat in quarantine but I'm not sure what the chances of survival would be, or if it would be worth it. The only thing that would make it worth it was that I fell in love. I tell you I'm dangerous. I should not be allowed to go there.

[Jim Powers]

DON"T GET THEM!!!!!!
ITS NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!!!!!!

[Martin Thoene]

Absolutely agree. The shop sounds like a liability. More importantly, the fish with light areas is HIGHLY suspect and most probably they've all been so oxygen deprived that the damage is done. They'll probably just shuffle of this mortal coil one by one.

Martin.

[TammyLiz]

From what you guys have said about buying hillstreams in questionable health, I was not expecting anything different. Its just so sad to think they're going to die.

[Jim Powers]

I would have to say that part of successful loach keeping is learning to walk away. You can't save every fish.
I speak from experience. I put an infected fish in one of my river tanks and wiped out a bunch of very cool fish. What is it they say; The best lessons learned are those learned hardest.

[TammyLiz]

I would have to say that part of successful loach keeping is learning to walk away. You can't save every fish.
I speak from experience. I put an infected fish in one of my river tanks and wiped out a bunch of very cool fish. What is it they say; The best lessons learned are those learned hardest.

Anyone would have to admit that wiping out a tank full of prized pets is much worse than letting a couple of fish die in the store.

[mikev]

DON"T GET THEM!!!!!!
ITS NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!!!!!!

Let me confirm this based on my own experience. Walk away, if the health is in doubt. What you describe sounds very much like one of the nasty diseases, and you don't want the trouble. You may be able to beat the disease and save some fish, but expect to suffer doing this, and it is just not worth it.

I did some trivial calculations last week.

From the place where I got some of the more exciting fish I have, I suffered overall >50% losses. Calculating the cost of drugs and my time put into attempts to save the fish, it comes to $50 per survivor or more. Not worth it. (And this is not counting the misery I had with each disease outbreak).

I don't think that my bad experience was a total loss. I've learned a lot too. But I don't think that right now You should be doing this type of learning.

Having said this, I still think that Beaufortia's are a great idea. Frank had some, or if not, he will have them again soon.

[Martin Thoene]

....and she can always mix Beaufortia with Gastromyzon.

Martin.

[TammyLiz]

Mike, I remember some of your stories trying to save the dying fish. It didn't sound like fun. But $50 per fish? I think I would have given up before that point. Meds can be so expensive.

....and she can always mix Beaufortia with Gastromyzon.

Martin.

This is all getting so exciting!

[mikev]

Mike, I remember some of your stories trying to save the dying fish. It didn't sound like fun. But $50 per fish? I think I would have given up before that point. Meds can be so expensive.

Meds, equipment (UV, for example), consultations, extra tanks....

I'm not sorry. I learned a lot. When you have free time and energy for a good war, by all means, try this. But now is not the time. Just get it from Frank, the two weeks that his hillstreams spend in his tanks get you very good chances for their survival.

(Incidentally, the score on Frank's fish: I have 34 from him right now. All alive. 24 out of the danger zone, 10 on day 12 of quarantine -- I'm quarantining his already quarantined fish too, which is probably too paranoid, but better be safe than sorry.)

....and she can always mix Beaufortia with Gastromyzon.

Martin.

This is all getting so exciting!

Uhu. Incidentally, do go over all the other stuff he has listed.

I'm pretty sure that both Martin and Jim would consider Chenis a very good choice too. IMHO, WAY more interesting than Gastros. Vannies IMO a great choice also. Zippers are immensely entertaining, even if they are not hillstreams. For the last two weeks, when I feed the fish, I spend a few minutes watching them eat--it is quite a show. Sewellias are not too bad either. Rosies. And two more things that are supposed to show up this weekend. Etc.

[LES..]

I stopped off at a LFS last night (it's on the route home from work) to pick up some replacement quick filters and made the mistake of wandering around the "livestock" area. I was astonished to find they had some of the best Gastromyzon ctenocephalus I have seen in this country. The colour was excellent and they were very active with lots of fin flashing (hence the ID) between some of the larger specimens.

Alas the same tank also showed why I had decided to never but fish from this place again. They has white clouds in the tank with the gastros, washed out weak little things and it was very depressing to see a dozen or so bodies hanging out of the filter intake, even worse to note that some were still struggling to free them selves :-( Else where I counted 3 dead 1" kubotai (ID suspect) being eaten by their tank mates. Most of the other loaches they had there were very small less than an inch TL apart form the XL clown loaches (2.5"). Possibly worst of all they had set up a demonstration 'nano' tank in the centre of the store, nicely planted and decorated by a single dead Betta Splendens rotting in the corner. This fish had been dead for a while. I won't go on.

I wanted to leave with all the gastros but I walked out with my filters and a good dose of depression.

Bringing this post back vaguely on thread, our current tank is 2' and our cheni seem happy enough with the massively oversized powerhead on the U/G. The outflow of the powerhead is just above the mid point of the tank and is directed to the back glass at an angle, this results in the water being circulated around the tank in a very non-linear way but there is a definite flow direction across the glass sides which the cheni like to sit in. We also have two big air stones driven by a 2x250lph air pump adding additional movement. One of the air stones is 8" long and located at against the end glass of the tank. The air curtain this generates draws water from under a large section of bog wood positioned just in front of the air stone. Having good flow in a nice dark corner of the tank does seem to be appreciated and most of the cheni will come to rest under the wood (when not being chased off!).

I don't class this setup as a river tank but we have been successful with the hillies we keep in it. Of course the next tank will be something special ;-)