SKINNY DISEASE

[mikev]

Adding epsom salt or salt might kill parasites through osmosis.

This may be a part of it but I'm doubtful: a parasite that lives in the digestive tract should be able to withstand minor changes to the environment. Epsom salt is basically a laxative, probably has the same effect on fish as on higher animals, and thus may push out an unattached parasite. I fail to see how it would help with one that it attached to the bowels, or how it will hurt a nematode that can move back and forth.

OTOH, it actually seems logical that adding epsom salt post-deworming may be of benefit, perhaps someone wants to try this.

Just thinking....

[TammyLiz]

I don't fully understand the situation in your tank and never heard of nematodes seen in the mouth,..but do get levamisole asap, if you are correct on nematodes, it is not something that gives you much time to spare. You may easily have more than one type of worms involved. Good luck!

Yes, maybe/probably more than one since the weakened immune system makes them more likely for secondary infection (or secondary infestation ). But as far as nematodes moving around in the system, I am not surprised. Usually parasitic infestations, in humans as well as fish, start in the intestine because they can harbor and most can breed there. However, many types can be found throughout the body, in muscle, and even brain tissue, once they have become established.

Of course I am not sure it was a nematode, but can describe it--about 3mm long, white, and visibly moving in a worm-like fashion within the tissue of the mouth.

[chefkeith]

The math of it- 1 tsp of Epsom salt to 5 gallons of water would = about 315 ppm. The magnesium would raise the TDS by about 100 ppm.

In a book I have, "The Colorguide of Tropical Fish Diseases"-
On the subject of emaciation, it say's if the fish has lost it's appitite, emaciation is caused by a bacterial infection (e.g. Fish TB). If the fish does have an appitite, the emaciation is usually from a parasitic infection (gillflukes, internal worm infections or sporozoa).

[mikev]

The math of it- 1 tsp of Epsom salt to 5 gallons of water would = about 315 ppm. The magnesium would raise the TDS by about 100 ppm.

A lot, but we don't know if this is relevant for the internal parasites at all. They may be protected against massive environment changes every new meal may bring.

If the fish does have an appitite, the emaciation is usually from a parasitic infection (gillflukes, internal worm infections or sporozoa).

Late stages of tapeworm infection would lead to not eating as well, seen a couple of fishes like this.

Yes, maybe/probably more than one since the weakened immune system makes them more likely for secondary infection (or secondary infestation

This too, but not what I meant: a skinny Yoyo case is probably not connected to nematodes. Nematodes I've seen kill quickly enough so that fish does not have the time to lose weight. It may have time to get lethargic, but only very close to the end.

IMHO, get levamisole asap and treat, then worry about the remaining problems, if any.

[shari2]

hi peacefulfishie,

sorry it took me a while. I work nights. Gotta sleep sometime.

As for levamisole affecting freshwater shrimp? That's a very good question. At the 2ppm recommended dosage I doubt it would be a problem. Remember levamisole primarily works on nematodes. If your shrimp are carrying them, it would kill the parasite. I've run across one anecdotal comment stating that while the levamisole did not wipe out snails it did seem to have an effect upon their reproductive cycle and shells. They did not die, but they seemed to reproduce more slowly after treatment. However, I do not know what the dosage used in this instance was, and that could be caused by a variety of factors.

I did send this question on levamisole safety and shrimp to Dr. Yanong and hope to hear back on it shortly. If anyone would know definitively, he'd be the guy.

Personally, I've not used it in a tank with shrimp, though all my tanks have thriving populations of mts and I've seen no ill effects upon their reproduction or shells. But...they are not shrimp.

If I get an answer from Dr. Yanong, I'll post it here. Meanwhile I'll look for further 'scientific' info while waiting. Based on my experience, and the research done thus far, I stand by my statement that it should be harmless, but...I'd like to know for sure from someone who 'really' knows, too.

Thanks for bringing it up!

[peacefulfishie]

Thanks Shari! I really appreciate the help. Didn't mean to get you out of bed!

I have searched and searched and haven't found a good firm answer. Maybe you know more places to look.

[chefkeith]

peacefulfishie- I've used Levamisole. It doesn't harm cherry shrimp.

Mike V. - external gillflukes is just as probable to cause skinniness. That's what I was leading to.

[peacefulfishie]

Thanks Chef! If it doesn't hurt the tiny cherry shrimp, my big guys should be able to take it.

[shari2]

Got a note from Frank (sometimes known as the 'shrimp guru' ) who said he's used it at 2ppm on Amano shrimp and Sulawesi blue bumblebees with no apparent effect on them.

Sounds like it should be safe in the right dosage.

[peacefulfishie]

Thanks for all the help! Wish me luck - I will treat them today!

[shari2]

Bump.


Well--it's been a while ...

Kate--if you can get some pics of Pop I'd appreciate it...

[tariesindanrie]

Thanks, Shari.

Tried to get some pics for you, but I am a really terrible photographer, even on a good day- and a moving fish with my shaky hands just didn't work so well. This is the best one I got:

This was day before yesterday- he looks much worse, and is far more lethargic- no longer eating at all. I don't think I got treatment started in time to make a difference

Hope this helps. I know that your work on this will definitely help many more loaches in the future!

[shari2]

In a book I have, "The Colorguide of Tropical Fish Diseases"-
On the subject of emaciation, it say's if the fish has lost it's appitite, emaciation is caused by a bacterial infection (e.g. Fish TB). If the fish does have an appitite, the emaciation is usually from a parasitic infection (gillflukes, internal worm infections or sporozoa).

Kate, did you see this?
Are you treating with antibiotics?
.......edit
and the pic isn't bad, just too small. Got a larger size?

[tariesindanrie]

Hey Shari- Loach Orgy's posts about his recent C/W problems made me remember that I hadn't got back this pic thing- I can't seem to fix it, as if I make it bigger, it's much worse (blurry). I probably should have taken one of Pop after he expired, but I didn't think of it at the time. Sorry about that...and I'd say that I hope you get some more pics, but I'd rather nobody else got sick anyhow, thanks for the help. My remaining two are fat and sassy!

Kate

[Ashleigh]

Shari, few pictures of a 1inch clown with 'skinny'. I bought five of these months ago that fattened up after levacide and then lost weight continuously despite several treatments.
I now only have two left that have still not left the q tank, one semi ok-you cannot see the dips at the head but he is not as fat as I would like and does not feed as aggressively as my other loaches, the other is still very very skinny although still eating despite me still treating them both. Anyway some pictures of the last skinny one before I had to put him down, he had stopped eating and just given up , I felt it would have been cruel to have kept on trying
Hope these pictures are of some help/use to you





Ashleigh