HELP....Albert not right

[mamaschild]

I sure hope someone can give me some idea of what to do here.....

Hubby called me at work this afternoon and said Albert (my 10" long Clown Loach) was breathing REALLY fast and not acting right. I couldn't do anything until I got home, so I checked on him as soon as I got here. He was swimming, well, not really swimming, just sort of sitting upside down under the "shelf" on the right side of the tank....here


He's breathing really fast still, like a dog panting, and his anus looks swollen and red. I tried to take pics.....but as you can see, he's staying away from the front and still upside down





He seems to be "pooping" something but it looks like food that has been in the tank and gotten soggy and I'm sorry this is graffic :lame:

I have no clue what's the matter :crying: He's been eating and fine.....normal.....

The others are fine, no symptoms of anything. Water is stable, 7.4, 0 ammonia or nitrites, Nitrates negligable.....but I did a big water change when I got home. The only thing I've done lately is cleaned out one of the 3 filters last Wednesday, but I didn't add anything to it, just rinsed and reset. I put a new cartridge in the HOB today after the water change hoping the carbon might help a little?????

Can you tell I'm grasping for ideas

[mamaschild]

I reached in and pushed on him gently and he turned over and swam across the tank. He sat under/behind the rock on that side, then came back under the shelf. Right now he's still upright, but he is floating.....like he can't stay down on the bottom. He is pushing his nose up on the shelf to stay down, which I think is why he's staying under the shelf...it's helping him stay down.

I'm also worried that the little guys are bothering him???? I know, totally social, but could their gathering around him so tight cause him stress??? They seem to want to be close and "protect" him, which is sweet, but is it good??? I know, without knowing what's wrong, probably can't say.......

[shari2]

Oh Shari, I don't know...
Do you think he's hanging by the heater purposely or is it just because it's in a convenient place?
What's the tank temp?

that protruding spot looks wrong, and there seems to be a bulge on his belly just above and behind it? Fed anything different lately? Has he been eating normally? Anything in the tank that he could have ingested that he shouldn't?
I'm grasping at straws here...
Stay calm. I know if I were you I'd be panicking.
................

and I wouldn't worry about the littler guys being around him. They seem to know when one of their own is not well and it may help, not hurt.

[mamaschild]

Thanks, Shari.

Ummmmm, don't know of anything in that tank that he could have eaten??? I did a big water change and cleaned the filter last Wednesday, but I haven't added anything to the tank, including fish???

I think he's against the heater just because it's there. That tank is at 80F, which is normal. He just seems to not be able to stay down. So he's under that rock shelf nose up into it. The heater is behind the shelf so he's using that, too.

I won't worry about the others, I just didn't want him to stress, but I guess the more support I have the better I feel, so that's good.

[shari2]

If it's a swim bladder issue he may get better on his own, but the anus has me worried...
Is he at all bloated, or is there any pinkness/redness anywhere that you can see?

[mamaschild]

I don't see anything visible wrong except that. He doesn't look swolen, bloated, red, discolored, cut, or anything, just the protrusion of the anus and the lump there.

His tank lights just went off, so I'll let him rest for the night and give him a good once over before work in the morning.

I'm so worried about him. It's not like he's an old fish....evena t 16 or 17 he's only middle aged

[shari2]

Constipation can create some swim problems for fish. What was the last thing he ate and did he pig out? (silly question for clowns, i know! )

[mistergreen]

if you have another tank, you might want to separate him... So the other fish won't bother him and in case he has a parasite, he won't pass it on.
Take care not to stress him out too much in the new tank.. Use old tank water for the new tank & the same temp.

[saphphx]

no idea about the illness...

but, I've noticed every time Squishy's gotten banged up and things and goes for a lie down, his little loachie friends all cram in with him, when normally they only go two to three to a pvc pipe, all six seem to want to get in and be by him. I think its a "we're here, so everything is going to be ok" kind of thing.

I know with some fish you feed them peas for const. problems. Not sure if you can give loaches peas, but it may be something to think about and ask a more clown loach knowing person.

I really hope he gets better, will keep him in my thoughts.

[hemi]

if it gets worse
givem a squeeze
it might help him pass whatever is stuck

[mistergreen]

if it gets worse
givem a squeeze
it might help him pass whatever is stuck

yeesh.. I don't know about that.. You could rupture something causing a hernia?sp

If you have a vet that deals with fish, you could go that route.
Horses have this problem with their intestine being impacted or twisted. They'd go in with a water hose and give it a colonic irrigation.

[Emma Turner]

So sorry to hear this, mamaschild. Do you feed your fish on live foods at all? I'm grasping at straws here, but live foods can introduce certain types of parasites which could eventually show up with the fish having a swollen belly and impaired swimming.
On the other hand, it could be dropsy, as it is not uncommon to see a swollen belly and reddedning of the vent.
I feel really helpless here, I wish I could do more to help. I know how I'd feel if it were one of my big loaches.
Emma

[shari2]

Yeah, dropsy was my first thought based on the swelling/vent issue, but there's also the upside down issue too. It is possible that the balance issue could be due to fluid build up in the abdominal tissues (the bulge) which shifts his balance. ?

Acute dropsy with a sudden onset is frequently caused by an internal bacterial infection. The sudden swelling is from internal bleeding and/or fluid buildup...

Depending on the cause of the symptoms I've read that increasing the temp up to as high as 86F and adding 1/8tsp of Epsom salts per 5 gallons can help draw out the fluid build up. Feeding with Romet B antibacterial food concurrently is also recommended. This is as long as you've ruled out parasites as a cause.

Dropsy caused by parasites or cancer will not present in an acute manner.
The good news is that it is usually not contagious, although there are conflicting opinions on this.
The sooner the treatment begins the more likely there is to have a positive outcome...and treatment can be done in a qtank to avoid stressing the rest of the fish.

How was he this morning? Further swelling or redness anywhere? Still hanging out upside down?

[mamaschild]

Thank you ALL for the insights and suggestions.

Shari, he DID pig out on the bottom feeder tablets I put in there the other night.....

He doesn't seem any worse this morning, although I can't get a good look at him. He's insisting on staying behind a large flat rock that leans up against the back wall. It's one of his regular spots. He is NOT upside down, so I see that as an improvement

He did not come out to eat, and the vent is still similar to what it looked last night. Like I said, I can't see very well, however. He also appeared to not be breathing as fast.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed today and Hubby will keep me updated as he goes home for lunch and will get an opportunity to check him out then. If he's no better, or worse this evening, I will figure out a way to remove and treat him.....problem is finding a tank to put him in.....he's not exactly a guppy

I will also do another water change tonight, just in case. Freshwater certainly never hurts.

[Emma Turner]

I'm glad he's no worse today. Do make sure you keep us informed, and tell him that Marge wishes him well.

Emma