New house, new tank for Clowns. How many??

[mvigor]

Good morning!

My family will be moving and as soon as funds are available I'll be acquiring a 6x2x2' 180 gallon tank for my clown loaches.

Right now I have 5 clowns sharing a 75 gallon tank with swordtails. I just bought them this year and they range in size from 3 to 5 inches. While they are still small enough that it's easy to get more in a similar size, I would like to bring the family up to full numbers.

In my future 6x2x2 foot tank, how many full grown adult clown loaches would you all keep? Maybe just the 5 I have now?

-Matt

Yeah, I know, boring repetitive question. Sorry! I've been searching the forums and I can't come up with a good answer on my own yet!

[Martin Thoene]

For truly fully grown Clowns I think you would want to be looking at maybe an even larger tank. However, a 180 is going to hold a group of at least 10 at the size you have now. It will give them room as they grow, but once fish of the bulk of Clowns get to about 10" I think they need at least a 30" wide tank and 30" depth. It is going to take a long while for them to get that big though.

Check out my setup if you didn't already see the article......

http://www.loaches.com/articles/my-clown-loach-aquarium

You absolutely need lots of filtration and water movement, plus excellent maintenance. Since writing the article I have added to the pumps in my tank. It's shifting about 3000 gph now. Such equipment must be considered in the total cost of a suitable setup.

Emma Turner's tank is considerably larger than what you are planning. I know she intends to write an article on it at some time.

Martin.

[mvigor]

Wow, really? More room than a 180 if I maintain a group of 5 as they grow? I was basing my tank width and height on 2x the adult length of any one given fish.

I definitely want to build into the wall only once. I see that I will need to consider at least one future tank upgrade. I guess if I get a 6x2x2 now--the 180 gallon tank--I will be able to front a 280 gallon tank in the same 6x2 front window opening, and just add that extra 12" depth. Wow, that adds cost!

Alternatively, if it's just a matter of water quality and not swimming space, I could just add a 55 gallon sump tank to the system along with superb filtration.

Martin, the tank from the article is yours? I love that tank and it really inspired me the first time I saw the article. Do your cannister filters catch most of the debris, or are you constantly cleaning those sponges?

[Martin Thoene]

I clean the River-Tank manifold sponges no more than once every two months. Most of the detritus gets sucked up by the filters. I clean each Rena alternately. Usually bi-weekly. The Aquaclear 500 maybe once a month.
I think I've only cleaned out the flow-through Magnum once. I never have to clean the sand. I can woosh it up with my hand and it never discolors the water......no dirt.

And when I say clean filters, I mean clean. With multiple filters, my personal philosophy is that I want the muck OUT. So no gently washing in used tank water for my filters. Media goes in the bath under chlorinated tap-water and gets cleaned.

Because of the multiple filters and schedule there's always enough nitrifying bacteria in the total system. At the next filter cleaning everything's slimy with bacterial coating. They recover quickly in the established system.

I wouldn't recommend my methods in a tank with just one filter though. Normal recommendations apply then.

As regards "full-size" tank recommendations I think that you'll find Emma agrees with me on tank width. One thing to consider is the ability to design decor within the tank that allows huge fish to hide if they want to. Very difficult if the tank is only twice as wide as the fish is long. Just giving the fish adequate room to turn round isn't really sufficient with fish that have more complex needs than a "cruiser" like a big Arowana for instance.

Martin.

[newshound]

I would personally stagger the ages of the clowns. As they age they tend to be shy and hide alot more. So when your current clowns get older your new clowns will be more up front and even act as clown dithers.

[Emma Turner]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to Loaches Online.

I have to agree with everything Martin has pointed out in his replies, and ultimately, if you provide your clown loaches with a large enough tank, the number that it can comfortably hold will depend a lot on (a) what filtration you are planning on using (I'd suggest multiple cannister filters) and (b) your planned maintenance regime.

My 1000 litre tank is home to 40+ clown loaches, ranging in size from 3" up to almost 12". Most are between 6-8". We have 2 large Eheim Professionel 3's (hold 25 litres of water each) and one large Professionel II on the tank, plus 3 powerheads, one of which is an extremely powerful Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100. We also have a UV steriliser mounted on one of the filter returns. We use soley RO water for water changes as our local water is extremely hard and alkaline. In the winter we carry out 3 partial water changes per week and in the summer months when our RO unit is producing more water, we carry these out almost daily.

Go for the absolute biggest footprint that you can, otherwise as Martin has already pointed out, you will not be able to aquascape it for larger clowns. The larger loaches are extremely fast powerful fish and need swimming space as well as hiding places that they can navigate around. Marge, my largest clown, is of a very wide girth (at least 3" not including pectoral fins).

Good luck,

Emma

[Curtis]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to Loaches Online.

I have to agree with everything Martin has pointed out in his replies, and ultimately, if you provide your clown loaches with a large enough tank, the number that it can comfortably hold will depend a lot on (a) what filtration you are planning on using (I'd suggest multiple cannister filters) and (b) your planned maintenance regime.

My 1000 litre tank is home to 40+ clown loaches, ranging in size from 3" up to almost 12". Most are between 6-8". We have 2 large Eheim Professionel 3's (hold 25 litres of water each) and one large Professionel II on the tank, plus 3 powerheads, one of which is an extremely powerful Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100. We also have a UV steriliser mounted on one of the filter returns. We use soley RO water for water changes as our local water is extremely hard and alkaline. In the winter we carry out 3 partial water changes per week and in the summer months when our RO unit is producing more water, we carry these out almost daily.

Go for the absolute biggest footprint that you can, otherwise as Martin has already pointed out, you will not be able to aquascape it for larger clowns. The larger loaches are extremely fast powerful fish and need swimming space as well as hiding places that they can navigate around. Marge, my largest clown, is of a very wide girth (at least 3" not including pectoral fins).

Good luck,

Emma

What is the dimensions of the 1000 liter tank you currently have your clowns in?

[Emma Turner]

What is the dimensions of the 1000 liter tank you currently have your clowns in?

It's 28" wide, and needs to become wider in the not so distant future. That tank was custom built to fit into an alcove between two chimney breasts and was the largest we could go. However, we are hoping to have an extension built on the house (hopefully some time next year) so that we have the space to provide the clowns with a much bigger home. It's either that, or move to a bigger house!

Emma

[wasserscheu]

... also working hard on establishing my dimensions on the tank... current planning status 220cm x 70wide x 60high. But that means one wing of the 2-wing windows (one window on each side of the tank) will not open to the full. To open the windows fully the tank would be limeted to 2m (thats the space between the windows) lucky that I hat put 2-wing windows in.

So my question was, is it worth sacraficing the opening of one wing? ... reading the above, gives me an idea of your answers... once the tank is in there it will stay ... until I have to leave the house (and I never know when that will be).

I´m planning only about 7 or 8 clowns. Currently have 3 (I assume one male and 2 fem.).

Here the pic of the construction site (I know quite daring of me posting this... but now you may understand why it will take a little time to have tank in place)



... as the weight will be more than 1000kg I think I need to lokate the tank at the outside wall- so I can mount it to the wall and this way have the wall carry halfr of the weight...

So, please help me out here, would you block the window partially?

Thanks

Wolfram

[Curtis]

Emma, do you have any concerns about your loaches or other fish getting hurt with the opening of the tunze stream?

[Emma Turner]

No, there is a flat grid that attaches to the front of the unit and, anyway, the flow out of that area is immense. I think I will have to take a video at some point to show just how strong the flow is.

Of more concern would be the actual area all around the pump where the water is drawn in. This is not an issue in my clown tank, as all occupants are of a fairly good size, but I would be very concerned about small fish such as something the size of neon tetras for example, and also hillstream loaches where their wide surface area may mean that once pulled against the cage they could not get away.

Emma