Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[Jim Powers]

I'm thinking there may be Species C. That pic looks like a cheni to me.
I also wonder if Species B might color up in time. If it does, it will be a much more attractive fish. I noticed that the gravel in the tank is light colored. The color of the background will often effect the color of the hillstream. They may be just trying to blend in with the gravel.
You have to love that whiskery face, though.

[mikev]

I'm thinking there may be Species C. That pic looks like a cheni to me.

I was hoping you would not suggest this. One fish died at the store yesterday and it looked just like another Cheni picture (dark)....And Species C prefers glass to the tank bottom,unlike B. All right, this means i'll have to get it a couple of companions somewhere...don't know where yet. A lonely fish is just not nice...but giving him back is even worse.... the way things are going we'll discover Species D some time tomorrow.

Blending: I think you are on target. Even right now, the ones that sit on leaves are darker, and the two pictures above show it. Good, I have some large flat round black stones for the new tank.

The whiskery face is great (esp. when I look closely), and the way they change their eyes is really strange (one angle seems to show an empty socket, then suddently the eye appears). We thought that some fish was blind yesterday But one really needs to look at them closely to appreciate. On the other hand, to me Species A looks truly beautiful.

[Martin Thoene]

I'm thinking there may be Species C. That pic looks like a cheni to me.

My initial reaction to Jim. I stole the photo and did some aligning with existing pics of P. cheni. I'm not 100% certain it is cheni, but definitely a Pseudogastromyzon. It might be the camera angle, but the nose looks to be somewhat shallower in slope than my cheni pics. Apart from that, most other body proportions are pretty darned close. Certainly fairly distinctive dorsal colour and there's the caudal peduncle spot too. At 1" it will probably be slimmer than an adult too. I wouldn't use body markings too much as an indicator because we know how variable they can be.

Martin.

[mikev]

Maybe this is a bit better (Species C)

[Graeme Robson]

Certainly a Pseudogastromyzon. As to which? Only time will tell.

[mikev]

Some more, hopefully interesting.

Sp A front view:



This one is huge, toward 3in. No barbels on any of Sp. A

I think the next one is cleaning the leaf.



Sp A bottom view. Click to enlarge; notice a strange "hole" on the chest -- they all have it.



Sp C bottom view

[Jim Powers]

Hmmm...I actually see some very small barbels on that first pic of Sp.A
Certainly not as big and as numerous as the ones on SpB, but more like the ones on L. disparis. Certainly a nice looking fish.
The "hole" you are talking about is probably the heart as seen through the chest. On some hillstreams you can see it beat.
Sp. C looks like a Pseudogastromyzon.

[mikev]

Hmmm...I actually see some very small barbels on that first pic of Sp.A

I think it is an illusion formed by pieces of ground. I looked at him very carefully and cannot see anything. Will remake the picture tomorrow.

Certainly a nice looking fish.

Oh yes. I spent around $400 on this setup, and he was the motivation. (Well, they looked like a nice family to provide a roof for: a big crocodile and a little baby--SpC )

Now, if he only would start eating....

Here is what I noticed: SpA seems to be truly vegetarian; they show no interest in anything but algae (Interestingly, the LOL page indicates the opposite!--so it may be another Sp.). Smaller SpA work leaves the way pleco would. Unfortunately, I cannot see this particular one (he is far the largest) eating anything, he sits on the glass all the time (no, he does not seem sick, and he is running around the glass). I think a pure algae-eating species would not really need barbels,....

SpB seems to be omnivorous. Some algae eating, some reaction to frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimp, even ate a large flake I dropped to the ground. They seem to be pretty similar to schisturas in terms of most habits.

SpC I have no idea, but probably an algae eater as well, he works the glass in a very pleco-cleaning way.

The problem may be that the new tank will have no algae initially and I'm not sure SpA will eat wafers....Maybe I should try to infect the new tank once the cycle is established?

The "hole" you are talking about is probably the heart as seen through the chest. On some hillstreams you can see it beat.

Very interesting. I saw something opening/closing....

[Martin Thoene]

Mike, compare these to C





Both Pseudogastromyzon cheni.

Martin.

[mikev]

Martin,

it looks somewhat like the top one (but almost no decorations on the chest of mine, and yours has much nicer colors), but my opinion is **worthless**. I've never seen a live P.Cheni, only your posts/article on it. And I don't know other Pseudo- species at all. I can try to make better pictures..., but I don't think you should rely on what I see.

Unfortunately, this fellow does not feel like it is a fully grown up yet and this may make ID'ing him very difficult. (Of course, I'd very much like to know what this is...and get him some friends if possible...) We may have better luck with SpA and SpB since I have several of each (and we can probably get more if needed).

IMHO, SpA is the more interesting. Not just because they look nice, they may be pretty good algae-eaters if one learns how to keep them happy. And they seem to be undocumented at this time (the LOL page is simply an input from one person who kept one species --- likely not the one I have --- and also apparently kept it in the wrong conditions.

What a unique mess...

---

PS. Looked at him carefully just now. The pattern is like your top picture but much less detailed. I can see the heart, and I assume that the large area below the heart is the stomach: it looks green (algae?) right now.

[mikev]

Jim,

Positively no barbels on Sp1. I've looked carefully and made a number of photos (mostly too bad to post), this was an illusion.

Above is what they like doing: sit on a leaf, and very slowly graze algae.

Do you have an idea of how to quickly infect the new tank with algae?

(I'm getting concerned that they simply would not eat anything else; null reaction to even blood worms). It is possible that they will eat algae wafers once real algae is not available, but I'd rather not bet on this.

Also: do any of your hillstreams eat vegetables and if yes, what?

I don't think I'll have a problem with Sp2, these eat everything and are very efficient in digging for food too. But Sp1 is a seriously atypical loach.

Thank you!

[Jim Powers]

It sure looked like barbels to me, but you are seeing them upclose and personal, and I am not. Many hillstreams have tiny white barbels that are often hard to see. That's what I thought I saw. I guess Sp. B has enough barbels for both.

I suspect algae will start growing in that tank soon enough. Do you have any rocks in another tank that are algae covered?
I think I would try introducing some algae wafers. You could also try taking some spinach leaves and pouring boiling water on them and let it sit for about 20-30 minutes in a covered bowl. Then you can anchor it under rocks and see if they eat that. L. disparis, chenis and protomyzon love it. They may not touch it for a day. It seems that sometimes they have to let it soften up for a bit before they eat it. Uncooked zuccinni slices might work, but I have never tried that.
One thing you have to remember about hillstreams. It sometimes takes them a bit before they readily take any regular fish foods. Some species like chenis and disparis, and apparently Sp. B, will eat anything right off the bat. Others take time to eat pelleted foods and even bloodworms and brine shrimp. In the meantime, they will usually graze for their food. Hopefully, that's the case with Sp. A.

[shari]

I have to say I thought in a couple of pics that I saw short barbels...but as Jim says, you are seeing live and in person...

[mikev]

I have to say I thought in a couple of pics that I saw short barbels...but as Jim says, you are seeing live and in person...

Very funny....I've been staring at them all morning and could not see any....my daughter claims she sees real small white barbels, so they ought to be there. Sorry I did not mean to mislead you.

Jim,

Thanks a lot for the instructions. I don't have such rocks, but I got the idea. I think I can grow them outside quickly enough (rocks+dirty tank water under the sun.). and I'll certainly try the spinach recepy--this one is a new for me. (Zuccinni never worked for me with other loaches, but no reason not to try it either). I'll read on oto's too, SpA seems to be a loach analogue of them.

I'm not concerned about the alleged vice president (SpC), his stomach alternates between green and white and he did a pretty good job cleaning a few patches of the algae on the glass (I watched him doing it--much more careful than a BN). He should make it and three months from now you should be able to know what it is. At least I fully understand now why you all are so excited about P.Cheni.

[mikev]

; duplicate deleted.