ich - clown loaches

[koko]

my poor clown loaches have got ich , i have raised the temp in the tank to 86F and treating with half strength medication. I have been reading up lots about ich, and have found out that after the ich leaves the host, they go to the bottom of the tank and encase themselves in a cyst, which is jelly like, before they multiply again. I wonder if that is what i found instead of eggs. Either way my poor clowns are really down in the dumps. How long will it be before they stop flashing, and they are in the far corner of my tank swimming against the glass about mid way in the tank. Is this normal. They are breathing rapidly, and I can see some redness underneath one of the loaches mouth area, probably from rubbing. And is ich harmful to humans, I don't wear gloves when changing the water, and i use a syphon cleaner. would hate to think that I might catch something from injesting a few drops of water while getting the syphon to work, have managed to pull hose away from mouth before actually swallowing any so far, thank goodness. Think I will go and buy a pump syphon.

[newshound]

do a search on this site
you have given us very little info
do your clowns even have whitespots on them?

[koko]

They certainly do have white spots and they were rubbing themselves madly, still are a little bit. They are also staying for long periods of time swimming up against the corner of the tank, is this normal. I did check this site re: ich and I have done as suggested. I have increased temp to 86F, treated the tank with half strength meds, and did a water change with a vaccuum. How long does it take for the symptoms to begin subsiding? They look soooo sad. But thankfully, they still have great appetites. And can humans catch any of these things from the tank by coming in contact with the water?

[mikev]

Hi Koko,

Sorry for your problem,

How long does it take for the symptoms to begin subsiding?

This depends on the med (and luck). With most efficient meds (Ich Guard, RidIch+, etc), you should hope for an improvement in 3-5 days. With some others it make take longer. Sometimes it does not work.

What are you using?

Don't stop the treatment for at least 5 days after the symptoms are gone.

Good luck!

And can humans catch any of these things from the tank by coming in contact with the water?

No, not Ich. But fish may carry other diseases that humans can indeed catch and even die from. So wash your hands.

[koko]

Thanks Mike for the reply. I am using Aristo Pet Aqua Master that has malachite green and formalin as was suggested on this forum. Hopefully then i should see improvements from tomorrow, which i will be doing another water change and adding meds. But do I add meds to only the new water, or do I put in the meds to full tank water again? At half strenght of course. Would hate to overdose the loaches.

And I think i will buy myself a pump syphon tomorrow also, would hate to catch some nasty disease beacause of the hobby I am loving so much. what do you use to clean your tanks out with?

[Ded1]

HBut fish may carry other diseases that humans can indeed catch and even die from. So wash your hands.

Other? There are 4 known diseases that can cause problems, not really a lot, and most often it is Fish TBC:

http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/transmissible.msnw

That is all. What other? You make it sound like there is about "36" of them
Dont scare poeple man.

[koko]

thanks Ded1. That still doesn't ease my mind in regards to catching diseases, whether there's 4 or 44. Geez I wish someone had told me that its possible to catch something from the tanks and not to use a mouth syphon. Hopefully here in Australia our quarantine laws would make it much harder to have diseased fish enter our Local Fish Shops. Thankfully so far I've only gotten a little water in the mouth (ewww) on one occassion, and spat it out quickly then wiped my mouth with a dry towel. Thats it, definitelty getting that pump syphon.

[ckk125]

if things dont get any better, try the temperature method...

beef it up to 91 degrees...but do it slowly...by 2 days, the clowns will be ok.

Done that...not once, but numerous times.

Good luck

[Ded1]

thanks Ded1.That still doesn't ease my mind in regards to catching diseases, whether there's 4 or 44. Geez I wish someone had told me that its possible to catch something from the tanks and not to use a mouth syphon. Hopefully here in Australia our quarantine laws would make it much harder to have diseased fish enter our Local Fish Shops. Thankfully so far I've only gotten a little water in the mouth (ewww) on one occassion, and spat it out quickly then wiped my mouth with a dry towel. Thats it, definitelty getting that pump syphon.

Hey. This is a real story about fish -> man disease story. The only real one, the only that made aguarist around the world to shake a bit, was a fish TBC.

As far as other mentioned - I NEVER heard anybody getting anything from the tank ( only one case of TBC) since 90% of parasites, bacteria that attack fish in tank...can not survive outside of water.

i really dont know why so panic about it. Ich is "normal" fish disease. We all get a water from tank in our mouth, its part of hobby, if I am to follow your logic, half of us would be in hospital all the time.

You will get more diseases from Birds, Cats and Dogs than from your sick fishes. Calm down, seriously!

[NancyD]

Add enough med (half dose) for the entire tank after a water change. Leave the water level a bit lower to add aeration from the filter return &/or add an airstone.

There is no need to get tank water in your mouth (especially medicated--beyond yuck!). There are several ways to start the syphon mouth-free. Submerge the hose in a bucket of water to remove the air, put your thumb over 1 end & the other in the tank underwater. Put the "thumb" end in an empty bucket lower than the tank & let go.
If your tubing has a larger vac end you can submerge it in the tank & tilt it underwater to get out the air. Again put your thumb over the other end of the tubing. Lift the big end & carefully release most of the air at the small thumb end. Put your thumb back & refill the big end with tank water by again tipping it up. Release the small end in an empty bucket keeping the big vac submerged. Ta da.
It takes very little practice, much longer to type it than do it.

[chris]

Formalin can be toxic and is carcinogenic to Humans, so you definitely want to be careful about getting that in your mouth.

[mikev]

HBut fish may carry other diseases that humans can indeed catch and even die from. So wash your hands.

Other? There are 4 known diseases that can cause problems, not really a lot, and most often it is Fish TBC:

http://groups.msn.com/FishHealth/transmissible.msnw

That is all. What other? You make it sound like there is about "36" of them
Dont scare poeple man.

Ded1:

In the context, "other" means "other than ich". I did not specify how many, since I don't know the answer to this. Neither do you.

But if you chose to be so picky, your link lists 5 diseases, not 4. The list is incomplete, there is one very obvious and dangerous disease not even mentioned. I'll leave it to you to figure out what that is, it should not be all that difficult (and I'm amazed that your link missed it). Additionally, Chris mentioned that in addition to the disease there are some drugs you really don't want reaching your body. Not just formalin either.

So do be careful. And if you need to be scared a bit to be careful, it is really better than catching some of the stuff. As your own link says:

Some can be difficult to cure….some can be quickly FATAL.

[Ded1]

@mikev

your reply to her wasnt wrong regarding informations you gave to her, but lady was obviously really scared to catch something serious from her tank fishes, and really cmon - how many aquarist do you know that got something serious from fishes in their tank ( not talking about TBC )?
How many aquarist do you know that died from catching something from fishes in their tank?

It is sooo rare that is absolutely unecessary to write it down to scared person who knows so much about it, that thinks that she can finish in hospital because her fishes have white spots on ther bodies.

I didn`t critize your answer as wrong, but as unecessary and without tactic. You made her more scared and she was allready freaking out.

[mikev]

@Ded1:

It is my belief that people should be advised of real dangers that come with animals and materials they handle and thus follow better procedures that minimize the risks. Most people can learn about the risks and achieve safety rather than panic.

If you believe that this is "sooo rare" that it does not happen, you are welcome to your opinions, but it imo it is irresponsible to tell people that it is sooo safe that they should not be careful.

[shari2]

Mike, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ded. Highly unlikely that she will end up in the hospital because she is treating for ich, either from the ich itself, or from the meds.
Is it 'possible'? Maybe.
Meanwhile, you've inserted a fear into a person new to fish which is perhaps a bit over the top.
Yes, koko, formalin is a somewhat dangerous substance. Don't get it in your mouth and if you get it on your hands wash them. But don't worry that you will come down with 'fishkeepercancerosis' or some such.