One loach hurt/mark another? She died ; (

[PitterPatti]

Hi, I have 2 4-inch clown loaches that were turnins (at different times) at the LFS. They are a good 4 inches long.

Tonite I saw the newer one pushing the first big one (Baby). Literally pushing her, and she didn't resist. Physically moving her.

Then he went in the PVC pipe and she is hanging out with a smaller clown in the wake of the power head. She has always been kind of a loner, not always, but most of the time, though there are times she plays with all the smaller ones etc.

Once the Newer big clown came in, shortly after, I put in PVC tubes as newer Clown wanted Baby's log. She pretty much hangs out in the pvc pipe now since I got it, and so does the new clown sometimes both in the same pipe. He is pushy that way. She grayed when he first came but then followed him around, etc. I wasn't sure what was going on, but it seemed to be okay. But they come out, didn't think anything unusual, except, after seeing him physically move her, I looked closely and she has a lesion on her fin on her side, where it connects to her body, like two sore spots and it looks raw. And she has a white spot on the top of her head, where her dark line is at her eye, and it is actually raised in that area on her head. I am wondering if he could have physically bit her?

I don't see them fight, and typically since she so rarely comes out, I don't stay next to aquarium if she does comes out...as I don't want to scare her back into cave........so I just noticed these spots and him pushing her.

I just looked at pics of Baby when I got her, at the end of June and she didn't have any of this.

The newest big clown is a bit smaller, and more out going, not shy, whereas Baby was.

He came about 2 weeks after her.

Oh, what do I do. Okay, guppy fry are moved and Baby and one small clown are in the 10 gallon quarantine. She has her pvc pipe. She honestly came out to me, after I realized all this tonite like asking for help, very friendly and she was in the power head flow with the others and was kind of leaning over more, like she wasn't completely in control.

Now that she is in the 10 gallon tank, she is alert and moving around. I turned off all lights.

I think she is sick. Maybe she has been hiding out to avoid him. Sad, I wished I could have interpretted this differently before.

I checked all the water numbers. Everything fine, except Nitrate getting a little pink on the test strip but not 20.... I checked it a couple of days ago and it was all fine.

I put in some prime for the tank just to be sure. It is about time to change water. I do about 20% a week, if not more often. Running two Emperor 400's. 75 gallon tank. All the other fish appear to be fine.

She has always been shy, but not to the point of being total recluse. She had no physical signs 6 weeks ago of any problem. When I got her she was pale, but colored up with good food, etc.

Could it be this other clown.

ONe other thing, I saw tonite, first time, what looked to be a worm in the water, just after he pushed her around. I pulled it out, it is not alive, looks like a huge long poop. Sort of a pinkish, orangish, fleshy colored. maybe an inch long.

I will get a place to post pics tomorrow, but I have to be up for work in 5 hrs.....can't do it tonite.

Any suggestions..... I have a 170 biowheel in the 10 gallon and it is cycled so she is okay in there for a while if need be. But if I get antibiotic, or meds, it will mess up that biowheel, so will need to take it out....

Night, and thanks in advance for any light you can shed.

One more thing, I could move the newer 4 inch clown into the guppy cory tank , he came with a 3 inch clown too, so I could put 3 clowns in the 55 tank.... The guppies are big enough, I doubt the clown could eat them, He is not that big YET.

[PitterPatti]

Okay, here are some pics of Baby. On her belly, she has a dark red circle. You can see if from these pics. A coworker suggested she had passed a parasite? Well, this think, you can see in the picture, wasn't alive.

Not sure what to do, but she is in quarantine, in her little pvc pipe on her back, gasping for air. I gave her what is it marcel antibiotic, 2 capfuls as instructed for 10 gallon tank.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=kmu ... 0&y=i47876

Patti

[PitterPatti]

More......... Baby has a bump on her head with a white spot, and on the next stripe is another white spot (not ich) like white head maybe. and then she has those open soars where her fin connects to the body. And that bright red spot on her belly.

None of the other loaches or fish appear sick.

????

thanks
Patti

[Emma Turner]

Patti,

I honestly don't have any experience with this type of problem, but it reminds me of pictures I've seen of Haemorrhagic Septicaemia.

It would be worth googling this to see what you think, whilst waiting for others to chime in. At first, I had thought it might have been some sort of secondary infection from wounds, but the fact that the fish has a red vent would make me think this is something much more serious. If it is HS, it will require antibiotic treatment.

Hope this helps and good luck,

Emma

[PitterPatti]

Hi Emma, thanks. I did put antibiotic in her 10 gallon tank before leaving her this morning. for bacterial infection. I was worried about those sores near her fin and desperate to do something for her.

I should have kept a better eye on her, even if she is shy......kick myself!

I will check out what you mentioned. Thanks!

Patti

[PitterPatti]

Sorry, I was really rambling! (panicking, tired, late and rushing this morning to get to work)

This poor fish, I don't know if she has been mistreated by the other new big loach or what. LFS says it wasn't a worm most likely it was probably she was constipated. Giving her antibiotics. Got her quarantined. LFS says when a clown loach is sick etc. they can be laying on the ground for days, and that I shouldn't be so panicked.

Went home at lunch and she is very bruised around the vent.

I didn't realize about the bump on the head and sores as she has been hiding out in the pvc pipe. And at the bump it is white like she has lost pigmentation there and also on the next stripe down. Seems like maybe the other large loach has been picking on her maybe.

I will have to watch everything closely.

Thanks
Patti