Fishless Cycling for the first time!

[MoonPye]

I'm very excited about learning about fishless cycling.. and in setting up my sand tank have decided to go that route. I read about a million articles on it to make sure I understand what it is I'm supposed to do to establish a healthy cycle.. just want to run this past you guys to tell me if I'm on schedule and if I'm missing anything..

I set up the tank on Sunday and destroyed one filter.. LOL.. someone here suggested giving it a day before turning a filter on and so that's what I did.. Monday I started filtration (no carbon) and added ammonia.. have healthy bacteria from an established, disease-free tank, got a reading of 4 - 5 ppm ammonia. Today being Tuesday, the filter has been running now for over 24 hours with the ammonia in the water.. got a reading of 2 - 3 ppm and nitrites between .25 - .5 .. since I'm getting nitrites already, I'm assuming it's because of the bacteria I'm using?? How do I know when the nitrites spike, when they start going down? Do I add more ammonia at that point, or I saw someone did the fishless cycling with fish food, can I do that? And do I keep adding an ammonia source until it reads 0, right?

I do have some live plants in the tank as well, in case that matters. I read some articles that said they would be beneficial, some said they wouldn't make a difference at all, and some said they would contribute to an algae problem. I decided to take the risk of algae if there was any possibility at all of a benefit from having them. All the plants are young and healthy.. but don't ask me what kind they are because I don't have that info handy and would probably take me several hours to find all the tiny pieces of paper I have the names of them on found.. LOL

I am truly VERY excited about FISHLESS cycling and not harming anyone.. wish I had done it with the tank I already have going, but unfortunately was ignorant to the most of the cycle process itself.. live and learn and hopefully not harm or kill anymore fish friends with ignorance!!

Even tho this process is seriously testing my patience, it is very nice to slow down and really THINK about what I want in the tank when it's stocking time. I was browsing in LFS today and just really so happy about the planning process.

I HAVE GOT TO get hubby to get my 55 out of storage!!! Who needs a bed in the bedroom anyway..

[mikev]

Fishless cycle is great...especially if you cheat by adding lots of bacteria, it may then work very quickly, and from what you said, you may be already halfway through.

Since the ammonia leg is almost established, you can add smaller amount of ammonia daily (say 1ppm) to keep the bacteria fed and watch the nitrites, with luck they will be at 0 in a few days. I'd still run it without fish for a few days, making sure that 1ppm of ammonia fully dissappears within 6 hours at least a couple of times -- this means that your tank is ready for a reasonable bioload and spikes are unlikely.

Check the nitrates at the end and do a W/C if they are high...but in a quickly cycled tank, they would not be.

[MoonPye]

Awesome, thank you! So it sounds like maybe I'm doing this right..

(I hope!)

[Diana]

I would go for a little more Ammonia. Dose it to 3 ppm each day. If the plants seem not to appreciate that much ammonia, then cut back.
If the Nitrite spikes beyond 5 ppm do a water change; nitrite can inhibit the growth of the bacteria.
When Ammonia and Nitrite return to 0 ppm soon after adding the ammonia, then you are ready for fish. A big water change (90%) will remove whatever Nitrates there are (well, 90% of them, anyway) so the fish start off with the best possible water.
Having added so much bacteria, and having plants in the tank your fishless cycle may go as fast as a week or so.

Here is the controversy about fishless cycle and plants:

Scenario 1: No plants: Bacteria are the only things removing the ammonia, you are essentially monitoring the growth of the various bacteria species when you are monitoring the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. No plants or so few that they make no difference means that the tank becomes cycled using bacteria to remove ammonia. This is the traditionally accepted way of dealing with ammonia. (well, recent tradition)

Scenario 2: So many fast growing plants, enough light, a little extra fertilizer added... Plants will be the main ammonia removal system in this tank. You could stock such a tank as soon as the plants have proven they are not going to float up out of the substrate. With digging fish I would give the plants time to root. Fish that usually don't dig could go in within a few days. This is the Not-Traditional cycle. Used to be that people did try to set up a more natural tank with plants and fish coexisting, and the plants removed the fish waste. Then people got away from that, and empty tanks (well, fish-only tanks) became the way to do things, so the planted tanks became the "Odd" way of doing things. Some people do not understand that BOTH plants and bacteria are allowed to remove ammonia and nitrite from the system. They claim that one or the other is 'stealing' the ammonia from the other.

Scenario 3: Lightly planted tank: I see no controversy here, but some people may feel that a tank needs to be heavily planted or not "Or else how do you know you are growing bacteria to cycle the tank? The plants might be 'stealing' it all?"
My answer to that is WHO CARES whether it is plants or bacteria that are removing the ammonia, tests show the ammonia and nitrites are no longer toxic, (that is, at 0 ppm) so go ahead and stock the tank!

Plants will use whatever ammonia they can, but this can be limited by the lack of other nutrients (including carbon). The end result of plants removing ammonia is no nitrates.
Bacteria will remove whatever ammonia they can, and turn it into nitrate. The end result of bacteria removing ammonia is nitrates.
These two life forms work together in nature, no reason they can't work together in an aquarium.
You can see that plants and bacteria are working together and will continue to work together to keep the tank cycled. Just look at the test results!

If it is your intent to remove the plants 'When the cycle is done" then the plants will have messed up the cycle: You were trying to grow bacteria, but the plants 'stole' the ammonia. The bacteria population will not be so large when both plants and bacteria are sharing the ammonia.

[MoonPye]

Wow thank you for all that information!

In answer to your question, I am planning on leaving the plants in the aquarium. I like a heavily planted tank but am growing some of the plants from very tiny babies (and even a few bulbs) so it will take quite a while before they are huge plants. I am not too particularly disturbed about fish eating plants, the whole reason I put them in the tank to begin with is for the fish that *like* to eat plants. If I spend 50 cents or $2 on a plant and it gets eaten, I consider it a good meal for the fish that ate it. I am a huge fan of Otos and know they like to suck on plants sometimes. I do have plastic plants in there as well right now to fill in gaps between live plants.

My nitrites appear to be spiking very high today, I will heed your advice and do a WC today.

Again, thank you! I am already learning so much from this forum. I'm so glad I found you all!!!

[MoonPye]

Ok I did about a 50% WC and tested about an hour or so later. Nitrites are over 1 mg.. my testing kit only says "over 1mg" it doesn't seem to read higher than that. So nitrites are still very high.

should I do another WC? And if I do, should I add more ammonia after that? Ammonia was reading at about 2.5 ppm after the WC.

[mikev]

Don't do too many WC's, this will slow down the process.

Firstly, in a tank that is not yet established, lots of nitrite-processing bacteria is in the water, WC's remove it. Secondly, massive WC's stress the bacteria.

The only reason for WC's during fishless cycling is very high nitrAtes, you are not likely to have them.

[MoonPye]

You guys are AWESOME. I am learning so much here, thank you so much.

I tested my fishless aquarium today. Ammonia was reading ZERO!! Nitrites went down to .5 . I added a bit more ammonia, that's what I'm supposed to be doing now, right? Will test in 6 hours to see what the ammonia reads then. I know I have to wait till nitrites are zero also (but somehow I managed to find alot of patience I didn't even know I had!).

I am so incredibly excited about this. I don't know much about chemistry, but when I'm actually involved like this I find it all FASCINATING to watch the changes going on right in front of my eyes.

Besides my husband I really only have one friend who is also into aquariums but she is not as excited about stuff like cycling as I am.. so nice to be able to come here and post.

[loachmom]

Besides my husband I really only have one friend who is also into aquariums .. so nice to be able to come here and post.

Same here!!! I know just one person who likes to talk about fish stuff. Even the people at the lfs seem disinterested.

[KLKelly]

I learned so much fishless cycling and am in the same boat as you. My husband gives me the grrr face when I ask him for help discerning the colours on the cards. And the worry of the fish swimming in toxic water isn't there either. I am fishless cycling (rather keeping a cycle alive) in a qt tank for new weather loaches right now. I have an ammonia alert card on the tank - I do that with every qt tank. Its neat to see the ammonia alert card change levels as it goes down through the day.

[mikev]

Its neat to see the ammonia alert card change levels as it goes down through the day.

Hmmm...neat indeed. I gotta try this. Too bad there is no nitrite card...

[MoonPye]

The past two days have been adding ammonia but getting readings of zero ammonia, and my nitrites are finally falling (still high, but down to .25). Looks like the cycle is on its way.

How exciting!!!

[KLKelly]

How about nitrates - are they registering yet?

[MoonPye]

I actually do not yet have a nitrAte test yet.. was going to get my next trip to the pet store, maybe tomorrow or Monday..

Some articles I read about fishless cycling said nitrAte test not necessary, but I am curious, so I will get one most likely.