Dissect Striata pictures & update

[wasserscheu]

Just lost 1 Striata. Other fish are ok. I will check water tomorrow, as I did separate tanks, but I assume it to be ok. I just noticed some Striatas today doing the loach-side-sleep in too open places – so I was alerted already. Watched one yesterday as well – one with big stomach, after feeding, so I did not worry that much…but may have been the one how died this night… did not show any red though

I wonder, if anyone could recognice anytthing from the pictures?

Got one Striata almost 2 weeks ago, and 10 more on Friday. The ones from Friday, were rather on the skinny side. I cheked them individually 3 days ago, and there was no really well feed one amongst them. Actually I suspect one to have skinny disease.

The dead one must have ate to burst, or has some infection. As there are multible inflammations, I suspect some “inner desease” I was not ready (that late), to cut it open, to check for worms. I watched for some time, there was no optical change from when it was still alive. I put it into the freezer, in case I want it to get checked…

“Big stomach desease” normaly takes ages, this took 3 days, I remember mikev letting us know about quick striata-infections…I hope I´ve not got that…

Thanks for taking a look.









^

[mikev]

Sorry for your loss...

“Big stomach desease” normaly takes ages, this took 3 days, I remember mikev letting us know about quick striata-infections…I hope I´ve not got that…

What I saw was asymptomatic except for behavior and secondary infections, so it is probably not it. If you can check the fish origin, it seems like SG is shipping healthy fish now (which of course may still have some other disease). I'd suggest a 4-week quarantine at least, since the Striata infection I saw may still be there, and that one was perhaps the worst disease I've seen yet. I did 2 months on my 1st Striata pack, and will do 2 months on the 2nd; I'm not taking chances with them.

I'd surely dissect this, especially that you have the skills.

Best of luck, and I'm glad you got the Striata's...they are enjoyable.

PS> I lost one among mine too, about 10 days into quarantine back in July. It was very skinny, not the kind I'd risk buying, but no way to chose with mail orders. But another very skinny from the same group recovered fully.

[wasserscheu]

Thanks Mike,

I´ll try to do, I spent already the entire night with fish...need to get at least a little sleep (we are having 5:49 am over here) never dissected a previous frozen fish, I´m worried I notice parasites only when they are moving or having really typical shapes. I´ll ask for your help, once I have pictures.

Yes, they are very lovely, should have got them earlier... they are one of the few loaches that seem to have a working air(swim)bladder. One small one observes the entire tank like a helicopter going up and down in a very smooth way - not the typical "grasshopper-loach-movements"...

[Mark in Vancouver]

Wasserchau, I'm sorry you lost a loach, but before you dissect your fish to look for (??) clues, (??) you might want to inquire with a local public aquarium or speak to a certified veterinarian. "Big stomach disease" is a baseless term which could describe any number of factors - parasites, dropsy, internal infection due to trauma in catching, poison from previous food, etc... That is, "big stomach" is not a disease, as far as I know.

A four week quarantine is very good advice. Two months quarantine is an even better suggestion if you want to be assured of your fishes' health and that of your aquarium.

[Mark in Vancouver]

PS: Personally, I would prefer the term "bloating" to "Big Stomach Disease." I don't know where that term came from, but it is instantly misleading.

[Martin Thoene]

mikev wrote:

If you can check the fish origin, it seems like SG is shipping healthy fish now (which of course may still have some other disease)

So they may be "healthy" but have "another disease"?

One cannot summarily state that SG (Singapore) is shipping healthy fish.
"Singapore" does not ship fish, multiple exporters within the Singapore region do and no single one can 100% certainly be described as shipping consistently healthy stock. There are multiple factors out of their control.

Most suppliers ship fish which in all good faith they believe are healthy. The very best suppliers in Singapore will hold back shipments if they are not confident in the fish for some reason......but still occasionally fish will have problems or be harbouring something which manifests itself after several days.

I have now lost every single one of my beautiful kuhlis. No obvious reason and they came from what is probably the very best of Singapore exporters. Not their fault, not my suppliers, not mine. Others have passed at the shop so there was something fundamentaly wrong yet the fish show zero signs of anything apart from a distinct lack of life.

This is why we quarantine because problems are not always obvious.

I'm looking at these pictures and the red patches suggest to me some form of sepsis.

Martin.

[shari2]

Sorry for your loss wasserscheu. Check through the links below. Gruesome pictures.
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... hlight=bhs

I'm not sure BHS is what killed your fish. I hope not. But it kills rapidly, is hard to diagnose from external symptoms, is caused by a variety of organisms, and I hate it.

Thought I'd throw this out there as if it is what you think you are dealing with you should treat the tank, pronto.

[mikev]

mikev wrote:

If you can check the fish origin, it seems like SG is shipping healthy fish now (which of course may still have some other disease)

So they may be "healthy" but have "another disease"?

It is fully possible for a human to pass a medical checkup with flying colors and be dead from a disease a week later.

With fish, it is even worse: no checkups are done. Even if three recent Striata shipments I've monitored appear healthy, there can be no assurance that the next shipment does not again carry the same disease. The fact that fish comes from a shipment of healthy fish in no way guarantees that the fish is healthy by the time a customer buys it.

This is why we quarantine and this is why I, at least, err on the side of more extensive quarantine. With the species I consider particularly dangerous (Striata, Kuhlis and some others) I will use all the means in my disposal to cut down the risk factor. Monitoring the fish at the store for a few days prior to buying is a very helpful tool to weed out the worst case scenario cases.

[Mark in Vancouver]

It is fully possible for a human to pass a medical checkup with flying colors and be dead from a disease a week later.

Fully possible, but exceptionally rare. We know that it's a crap shoot with some species - so try to use reputable suppliers, try to choose healthy looking fish (or at least fish that are not obviously ill or underfed, etc...), and quarantine.

There is no mystery here.

[mikev]

Exactly, Mark.

What is rare for humans is sadly common for fish.

I think we are on the same wavelength here.

[shari2]

It is fully possible for a human to pass a medical checkup with flying colors and be dead from a disease a week later.

Would be rare indeed. Now poison, that would be another matter...

[mikev]

Undetected heart problem, aneurysm, Ebola, anthrax.....

A person who worked for me back in the late 80's went from full health to the cemetery in one week with uncommon acute cancer. Now, that one was indeed rare.

[ckk125]

Not checking the dead stratia?If no one is dissecting it, the cause will always be unknown..

[Tinman]

This looks to me to be an infection usually caused by a filter crash or fouled water like the cannisters are full of crud at the bottom or something holding waste in the tank . I had this look with plecos that picked bits up in the gills or ate it because of food and bits collecting in the same spot in my tank due to water circulation issues.They had good color on the outside but had red glowing through the bellys just previous to their demise similar to your pics. This is not a Doctors opinion, just mine. My suggestion is to look over your filters well with eyes and nose, and think about how clean everything was for the 3-4 weeks previous to this as an infection takes some time to kill although we may not see it immediatly.I think that may be more likely than Anthrax IMHO.........

[ckk125]

Open that stratia up, then we can know the cause and prevent such things from happening again.