My 240g tank journal

[crazy loaches]

Thanks for the comments all!

Yeah sumps are a bit different and sometimes weird to understand at first. This is my first one. There are many reasons for using a sump, for one, they lend themselves more to DIY and customization. But some quick benefits of a sump:
-more water in the system
-water level remains constant in the display tank (evaporation only shows in sump)
-hold equipment like heaters that would normally be an eye-sore in the display tank
-easy access for taking water samples or dosing meds and ferts without spooking fish.

Probably more, but those are the highlights.

Diana - yeah the eggcrate basically provides a solid backing for the floss. It pinches it around the perimeter between the lid. I dont think the potscrubbers alone would do this, they would probably put more pressure in the middle and 'blow out' the floss out the opening. I am sure there are other ways to do it but this was just simple and easy. Your idea of ziptie and sandwiching them together sounds like it would work well. The totes I used had a sort of shelf at just the right position so the eggcrate would hit that and leave just enough room for the floss. I have used eggcrate for all sorts of stuff in the past so I have a few partial sheets around. And the boxes arent really full of potscrubbers - I bought all the store had twice but that only fills the boxes up 3/4 which is fine though since the water line is actually a little under the top of the boxes. I have to leave some empty volume in the sumps since if the power goes out a certain amount of water will continue to drain into them for a little while.

And great suggestion with the Vaseline - I hadnt thought of that. Sometimes when pvc is together for a little while it does stick. I will probably try that.

Shari - yeah they are not water tight. But it is under suction (plumbed into the return pump). Since the sump tanks will be full of water (not shown in the pics yet) if I get a little bit of water sucked through the seams its no big deal.

Loachmom - Yeah you have figured it out correctly. Its a bit more complex but you got the idea. I will try to draw up a diagram showing how the overflow & sump works and how its configured in my tank (many different ways to do it).

[clownloachfan]

Very nice. Nice job on the cabinet. Is there any fish in there yet?

[loachmom]

Thanks Rocco and Tristan. Glad to know my son and I were on the right track.
This is a great thread...very inspiring!

[Rocco]

What I'd like to understand is how those PVC hang on overflows work. I know it's by siphoning but theres a few things there I don't get, like that hole drilled onto the top of it. *shrugs*

[Martin Thoene]

What I'd like to understand is how those PVC hang on overflows work. I know it's by siphoning but theres a few things there I don't get, like that hole drilled onto the top of it. *shrugs*

As you are no doubt aware Rocco those hang on overflows are composed of two boxes. One is in the tank and is the overflow. the top edge is castellated to form a crude strainer like most in-tank overflows have.

The outside box has a plumbing connection in it's base which feeds the sump via gravity.

The two boxes are joined by a rectangular cross-section syphon tube so water can flow from one box to the other. As you know with a syphon you have to get air out of it for it to work properly. The hole in the top of the syphon in these overflows is either used to suck air out at initial startup and then closed off via a tap, or a fitting is screwed in there which attatches to a pump that can bleed off a small amount of water from this high point and continually remove any air that gets inside via tiny bubbles. This will maintain the syphon.

Martin.

[crazy loaches]

I've been under the weather here lately so I hadnt posted in a few days. Just wanted to make a couple comments to Rocco and Martin. Martin hit the nail on the head with the siphon starter hole on the overflows. But since Rocco used the term 'pvc hang on overflow' I wonder if you were talking about the DIY ones? Just wanted to point out you can make these out of pvc that dont use 'boxes', and some of them are pretty wicked looking! If I had to do it again I might save a ton of money by making my own overflows, plus less wasted tank space as well as non-permanent.

DIY PVC overflows:
Basic DIY PVC overflow

PVC 'Pretzel' Overflow

Awesome looking 3D animated PVC overflow

[crazy loaches]

To finish up the plumbing pics:


The two 2.5g jugs I will be using as a fertilizer reservoir for automated dosing.



First gen drain silencer. Water comes down the drain from the overflows above, slows down going through the larger diameter adapter, goes into the tee, air bubbles rise to the top of the tee were there is a small vent hole, and the water exits below. This whole assembly is rather heavy so the bottom part is cut to the right length that it rests on the sump bottom and the waterline is near the top of were the water enters the tee. There is only 1 problem with this design, I wanted a filter sock to catch large debris. So I redesigned it below...



I simply added another tee instead, happened to be the perfect hieght, and would allow me to attach a sock to the opening. I plugged the base to direct all the flow out the center by using a pvc pressure cap seated all the way and held in place by a 1" piece of pipe inserted right up to it.



I am going to try to use a large media bag, 250 micron, to trap large debris that might make it down, or fish, etc. The stainless steel hose clamp should hold it in place and provide fairly easy removal for cleaning if need be. The whole assembly can be pulled out so I wont have to reach under water with a screwdriver to access the filter bag.



Another shot of the fert reservoirs, you can see the Tom Aqualifter pump mounted beside them I am going to be using (one tank for micros, the other for macros).



I used clear union swinging check valves to prevent backflow due to reverse siphon upon power failure. There are also holes drilled in the return pipes slightly below the water surface just incase the check valves were to fail. These style check valves literally take no force to open (you can tip them and they open with gravity even).



Float valves for automated water change. These are used in conjunction with a solenoid to prevent accidental overfilling.



I might yet change my co2 injection method but first I am going to try a simple approach, bubbling it into the intake of the return pump. Those are Rena Microbubblers, so I am already starting out with small bubbles, hopefully the pump impellor and the several foot long journey back to the tank will mostly dissolve the co2, but a few micro-bubbles would be welcome also. This is the double-wye fitting that goes between the filter boxes on the intake side of the return pump.

[chefkeith]

You certainly haven't left out any bells or whistles. Watching you set-up this aquarium has been a pleasure.

[Diana]

Not only bells and whistles... this set up will be singing, dancing and will put out the cat.

Those are great self starting siphon links.
I built one like the grey one, it works great. The air hole at the top I inserted a venturi air tube from a powerhead. If the flow ever stops the removal of air from here helps to re-start the flow. The air tube does not interfere with the sound-dampening effect, though. Still runs quietly.

The one with the diagram of how things ought to be built, lengths and all is the one I used to build mine. I did not make a Pretzel, though. The goal was to make 2 of them, one at each end of the tank. Tank leaked, though, before I could make the second one.

The ACAD version, 3 inlets... I have as my desktop. I think the pipes need to be longer on the inside and outside of the tank. If I ever built that one, I would make them longer, more in line with The Pretzel.

[Tinman]

Great and facsinating build.


With all this talk of siphon tubes a little experiance I have learned ...The long tube style will collect waste and should be cleaned regularly. The waste will accumulate in the bottom of the traps and create a situation where all your water is strained over waste.
The siphon tube and box style exposes the waste to the outside box and lets you see the problem and the siphon tube has no trap to catch waste.

This is the same situation you have in a cannister where all the waste piles in the bottom. Regular cleaning is essential for any low sump or long siphon tube.The flow slows over the top and causes waste to fall back down not leaving your tank.

On another note. I like the heaters in the tank for the fishes comfort . The fish will move to and from the heater like a cat or dog to the AC vent in your house. Heaters are better placed in the tank for fishes comfort as opposed to in the sump which is for looks only. I know some people like the look better with no cord but I place mine in the tanks as the fish regularly move to and from them like a little heating pad.I have the advantage of not having these tanks in my living room so I am more about the fishes needs than looks as a centerpiece of my living quarters so I understand those concerns but do not apply them personally.

[CrazyLoach]

It looks awesome and very complicated .

PS. we have very similar name.

[crazy loaches]

Oh great, now people will get us confused like the Shari's
just kiding
Most of the stuff I have is relatively simplistic... but somehow it has taken me months and months of work (a lot of what I have posted has been actually done long before I made the first post on this thread).

Tinman - since I've never done the DIY PVC overflows yet that is something I hadnt considered, that crud could buildup in the bottom of the tubes. But a good sized bottle / pipe brush should remedy that. Or perhaps this may be more a problem with lower flow? I wonder if a much faster flowing setup would tend to carry the crud out with the water. Well I dont know, I might not ever use one, at least not until I start another tank project.

The ACAD version, 3 inlets... I have as my desktop. I think the pipes need to be longer on the inside and outside of the tank. If I ever built that one, I would make them longer, more in line with The Pretzel.

That is a nifty rendering. And I often wondered why the height of the thing was so short, and wondered if flow would be worse or better if they were longer, more inline with others. Then again the retail box style ones are extremely short.

[Diana]

Well, I would think the self starting aspect would be lost without the volume of water on both sides. The length of the pipes inside and out in the drawing of the Pretzel are carefully figured out and will work no matter how many cross connections there are, as long as you think of each inlet and outlet as a single unit and have the volume of water to make it work individually.
The ACAD item I have on my desktop may look pretty, but as a self-starting siphon I do not think it will work.

[crazy loaches]

But even the really small hang on box style ones will still self start? I know there is more volume of water with longer tubes, its just not clicking what that will really do differently. I suppose as logn as you kept the overflow part on the outside fairly low, it would create more head pressure on the water inside, and maybe could support a higher flow rate, and maybe self start a little easier/more reliably?

[Diana]

The boxes work similar to the piped version, but the water is in the box closer to the top of the tank. The volume is similar, though. (And related to pipe size) There is baffling in the boxes that retains a certain amount of water when the siphon quits so that when the box starts re-filling the siphon will restart.
I know there are pictures on line somewhere similar to the colored diagram of the Pretzel. The site included instructions and cut sheets for building a box out of acrylic, and the critical measurements so that it would work.