Loaches Online Forum

Thanks for everyones comments, even Graeme's

Graeme Robson wrote:Disgusting looking critters!

Everyone has their personal preferences and opinions and I respect that, but I think "Disgusting looking critters" is a touch harsh. They don't look any different shape wise to any other botia species and markings wise they look very much like juvenile Rostrata, I am not saying that's a good or bad thing but they don't look any different. If they had long flowing fins, day glow colours or some major feature changed then that would be different.

I do hope that the people who have managed to move this process forward to this point are responsible enough to use the process to ease the pressure on wild stocks and start breeding pure strains of fish, this maybe a little naive on my part but I like to try and see positives rather than negatives

Look beautiful to me. Its called evolutuion. I guess we humans are disgusting looking critters too.

those are truely beautiful fish ! i have kept fancy goldfish when i was younger but now i dont really like them. i'm not a fan "commercial fish" or even the parot fish hybrids. the glow in the dark fish dont bother me as much but we need to ask what would happen if these fish were released into the wild(either on purpoe or by accident).

humans have been selectively breeding animals for thousands of years but now in this age of genetic power we can make huge changes in a very short time. these fish look healthy and would probably blend in with the original speices but we dont know what else may be different about them. are all of these hybrids hyoer active? i'm sure their DNA is nearly 100 percent the same but its not so easy to know what all the effects will be right away. since the two species are so similar i doubt there should be conern. its not like crossing two speices that are vastly different. its not hard to recognize how similar many botias already are.

i guess i didnt really have a point. just wanted to voice some thoughts.

I'm sorry if my opinion may of came across harsh, Mark. But i just don't agree or like any kind of man made creations when nature has millions of natural evolutions going on. Another matter which concerns me is when these Hybrid's are constantly hungry and hyper-active. This to me is not natural and who is it say that these Loaches are not suffering from the inside. Something is genetically screwed up with these.

Not to worry, this is what a forum is for. Good old debates and discussions.

Wait! So these were crossbred by man and were not naturally occuring mutants in the wild?

clownloachfan wrote:Wait! So these were crossbred by man and were not naturally occuring mutants in the wild?

Yes!

It is doubtful whether these hybrids would even be fertile, plus they are being bred in Russia & Czech Republic where they wouldn't survive were some idiot to release them into the waterways over there. As far as I know, none are being exported back to Asia. It wouldn't make any sense.

I also wish they would concentrate their breeding efforts on producing pure species, rather than crossing them for larger brood sizes or whatever. But....it is not the fault of these loaches, they are here now, and I am glad that a reponsible fishkeeper like MD has taken a group of them on.

Emma

I think they are striking fish. But there are some 'natural' species that are equally striking. The problem I see would be if they hybridize in tanks, so we end up with specimens that noone can ID, and a dilution of the naturally evolved species similar to what seemed to happen with some Malawi cichlids. If these Botia hybrids are sterile, then there is no threat, and hence no real harm. Will we ever know for sure that they are hybrids, i.e., confirmed rather than suspected based on looks?

Yes, they came from a supplier in the Czech Republic who states that 100% of fish on his stocklist are captive bred. The store ordered them without realising this claim, and these are what turned up under the Botia almorhae tag. They also have Clown Loach and Yasuhikotakia modesta listed. Obviously I will not be ordering those (I get all my loaches directly from Asia) and I have advised the store who go the B. almorhae hybrids in by mistake not to order loaches from there again.

Emma

I agree emma, they should definitely aim for breeding pure breed fish.

The tide seems to be turning in the right direction , over eating and hyperactive behaviour , well noted Graeme ! also my main worry is that any new wild fish discoveries will now have to be treated with suspicion, a kind of are they arent they situation ! why oh why are people never satisfied with what mother nature can offer ? it must be said that if these fish of Marks had been offered as genuine wild fish , i would probarbly have fell for it ! although i couldnt say the same for Martins fish , because in my opinion they look dreadful ! BUT at least they could never be mistaken for real fish , they are more akin to those Parrot Cichlids , isnt it great to be able to exchange points of view !

Hybrid vigour is a well known fact. Maybe that's why my fish and Mark's are so active? You cross a horse and donkey you get a mule. Mules can standing start jump much higher than a horse or donkey can. They are also stronger and tougher.

Much as I love these fish I wish the people who created them would use their expertise to produce pure-bred species. If they are artificially fertilizing eggs why not use the same species sperm? I'm figuring that they're experimenting just because of human curiosity. If they produce something that's attractive to many is it not human nature to sell them to recoup some of the costs?

Martin.

i agree with you on the breeders selling fish on martin,
what i don't agree with is the way they were ripping fishhkeepers of by not saying they were hybrids,
andy was one who got ripped off, he bought a very small supposedly syno granulosus for £40, that turned out to be a hybrid.

regards
mick