Loaches Online Forum

Down to one loach which is very still not eating or moving much. All my other loaches died. I wish I would have found this forum sooner. I haven't done my weekly water change yet been waiting for some answers from you guys.

Don't think my single loach will survive it's too weak. Water change scares me at this point.

Will write more later off to work

Thanks again

I would go with the water changes, using the "aged" water like Diana suggested. I agree the situation seems a bit bleak at this point. There isn't much else that can be done unfortunately.

I only have one loach left this morning. I will try to let the water sit but it still doesn't explain the spasms or why they are dying on me. They curl up like someone having a seizure and shake then stop. Few minutes later it starts again. I never knew kuhlis were this sensitive I wish someone would have told me before I bought them.

I don't believe I got a bad batch I've had them for over 3 months and they just started dying on me last week. The floating has always been a problem. When I brought them home and put them in the tank they were not floating they all went and hid.

Worst part is I can't find any loaches in pet stores anywhere anymore. So my poor guy, if he lives will have to be alone. Sad life for a loach

I'm very very depressed. What would cause rotten little spots floating in the tank? Old food?

Thanks again for your help. Any ideas on my test readings or how to narrow down the difference?

Testing:

Better quality test equipment will give you better data.
Usually this is higher priced equipment.
The best equipment is the set that includes sealed test tubes with liquid color samples to compare your test tube with.
Next best is liquid reagents and test tubes, and colored cards to compare the results to.
Lowest quality (but fastest) is dry dip-stick tests. The range of timing on these dipstick tests is very fine. A second or two either way can give you false results.

Being VERY careful with quantities. If your test requires 5 ml of water, for example:
Fill and discard water from the tank into a marked syringe (no needle) and the test tube several times before drawing the sample. This (hopefully) is removing any remnant from the syringe and test tube from prior tests. Measure using the accurately marked syringe, not the line on the side of the test tube.
Follow the instructions very carefully about adding drops, shaking, adding more drops, timing...
Use the cap, not your thumb to cover the test tube when shaking it.
Read the results in very good light. I find a bright window without sunlight directly on the test tube or card is the easiest to read.
Some tests are pretty easy to see that the color is in between two colors, so you can interpolate and call it halfway, but I would not try to fine tune it better than that.
Write down the results, including the units.
After the test rinse everything in distilled or RO water for the least residue, cleanest start for the next test.

Hi,
Sorry you are having this problem. It's sad when you lose fish, especially when you don't know why.

I recently lost about nine of my kuhli loaches, and they also curled up and seemed unable to straighten themselves. They didn't float, though. I attributed my loss to toxic metal poisoning, although I could be wrong about that. My thermometer broke in my tank, and all the little metal bb's fell into the substrate. I left them in the substrate thinking they wouldn't be a problem, but when I started losing loaches, I took them out with a magnet and they were rusty.

Do you have any metal in your tank-- twist ties, or anything? What do you use for substrate? Sand? How deep is it?

I hope you soon find a solution---and more kuhlis. They are delightful, little fish.

I have poured my water into a bucket to let it sit for a day. My water change was due on Monday but I don't think one more day will change much. I have one little loach left no idea if it's healthy or not but it's alive.

When I looked at my bucket filled with new water I did see piles of bubbles for on the sides. Is this what you are talking about?

Just for the record I don't think any of my fish had a chance to get used to the water as I bought them all pretty much at the same time. The last to go in were the 2 Honey Gouramis (of which I lost one) and they were the least affected by the water changes.

Anyways I'll see if this changes anything hope it solves my problem.

I find it strange that in 3 months on many different message boards no one has ever been able to answer me. Someone out there has to have had the same problems at one point if not with loaches then with some other sort of fish you would think.

Thanks for all your help.

I don't know if you saw my post or not from earlier, but I suggested that it could be the substrate, rocks, or sand that could be fouling up the water. If something is leaching it can drive up the TDS of the tank water. Then when you do a water change, the TDS drops and fish go through osmotic shock. One symptom of Osmotic shock is swim bladder problems, which could cause the loaches to bloat and float. I've had this float problem once with a fish because I had a bunch of leaching rainbow rocks and some crushed coral in a tank. The fish died mysteriously, but once I got a TDS meter and checked the water I figured out what the problem was.

Louise wrote:I have poured my water into a bucket to let it sit for a day. My water change was due on Monday but I don't think one more day will change much. I have one little loach left no idea if it's healthy or not but it's alive.

When I looked at my bucket filled with new water I did see piles of bubbles for on the sides. Is this what you are talking about?
.

That does sound like your water is gassing, and that most certainly can cause big problems if it goes into the tank before having time to release. Easy enough to work around though just by letting the water have a day to sit out before adding and that problem will be solved.

Also what chefkeith is saying is another valid point to consider. The TDS meters which are cheap and accurate will tell you if your tank decorations, rocks or substrate are adding minerals or other things to your water. I think he has a link to where you can order one for cheap on his homepage.

Sorry I didn't see the page about the meter. I have no idea where to get one I'm in Canada. Do they sell them in pet stores? I have live plants no fakes a few decorations and my substrate was bought especially for aquariums logically there should be no problem with that. I also have a plastic decoration but again made for aquariums. No rocks that I found outside or anything like that. If it were something leaking out toxic stuff wouldn't my other fish suffer too? Why would it be only at water change time? Last water change I did was 20% with same results, floating loaches.

I dunno....

The TDS meters can be ordered online from here:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ They have some good prices $US anyhow for supplies as well. Not the cheapest though for the meter.

The meter is a good thing to have but in your case more of a secondary issue from what you describe as having in your tank. Nothing out of the ordinary for sure, shouldn't be any problems, and your problems are occuring at water change time.

I would focus on the water. You said you had the bubbles collecting on the sides of the bucket so that definitely sounds like your tap water is releasing gasses. That is a known problem that can cause the symptoms you are having. See how things go with the water changes using the water that has had a chance to age and release its gasses. Hopefully with a few changes of aged water the problems will start to go away.

If you have something leaching, the water at the very bottom of the tank might be get heavy with minerals. Then when you stir up the substrate at the bottom the heavy water gets mixed with the rest, and then the bottom fish might experience osmotic shock.

This all depends on if something is leaching. Some substrates that are specifically for planted tanks can leach. If you are using plant tabs, they can leach also. The lower the pH, the more things will leach.

Right now, all we can really do is guess what's wrong. We can probably figure out most potential problems if we have more complete details.
It be nice to have a full description of the aquarium with all the specifics.


We need to know all the equipment for the tank
What heaters are used, where are they located?
What filters are used, what is their flow rating, how are they set-up?
What lighting is used?
What is the duration of the lighting?
What is the pH at night when the lights are turned off? What is the pH in the morning when the lights are turned on? (This will help us figure out if CO2 levels are getting toxic)
How much surface agitation is there?
Is an air pump or air stone used?
Are fish ever gasping for oxygen in the morning when the lights are turned on?

Do you unplug everything during water changes?
Is any equipment damaged? (Need to examine all the equipment, this means pulling it out of the tank and inspecting it carefully)
Have you ever felt an electrical shock when putting hands in the water?
Is the tank and all equipment electrically grounded?

What fish do you have in this tank, past and present? (Be specific, scientific names please, kuhli loach is a common name for many types of pangio species) http://www.loaches.com/species-index/species-index


How many fish do you have?
What other inhabitants are in the tank, past and present? (shrimp, snails, ect)

How big is the tank? (Length, Width, Height)
What is the volume of the tank?
How much water is actually in the tank?
What kind of hood is on the tank?
How much water evaporates each week?

What substrate is used?
What decorations, caves, driftwood, rocks are in the tank?
Caves can trap toxins, is there any water flowing in the loach caves?

What plants/algae do you have?
How many plants/algae you have?
What fertilizers are used ?

We need all the water parameters tested accurately.
Temperature, KH, GH, Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia, and TDS.
Where you are located? Maybe we can get a water report from the water company.

Need to know your acclimation and quarantine procedures for all the fish.
Dates when the fish were added?
What medications were used and when?

Pictures of everything would help greatly, especially the fish and tank.

This is the TDS meter I use (and where I got it).

http://www.filtersfast.com/HM-Digital-T ... Tester.asp

Are you matching the temperature of the tank water and the new water? If they are really different this may have an effect...


Hope it helps.

Batch

We need all the water parameters tested accurately.
Temperature, KH, GH, Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia, and TDS.

And test the tap water for all the same things.
Test the pH twice: Once on some water right out of the tap, then on some water that has been sitting out for 24-48 hours.

Some fish are more sensitive than others to various changes, and it may be that whatever is going on is particularly bad for Kuhlie Loaches.
I have also found Honey Gouramis to be somewhat delicate, but if they make it through the first week they are a lot better with small changes.

ok those are a lot of questions to answer so I'll do my best.

Tank is 25 gallon planted with gravel. I have various plants, ceramic house type thing and a couple of arches also ceramic. I have a plastic fake rock for fish to hide in a couple of small clay pots that came with plants I bought for aquarium (again loaches love to hide in them) 1 heater (don't know the brand) situated to the right of the tank beside my Fluval 200 water filter. I also have a HOP filter further to the left of the tank. I hadn't used charcoal for a while but this week I added after I lost my gourami I do not know the flow rate of my filters but the Fluval also acts as a bubbler (which I used to use only at night for the plants) I've stopped using the bubbler yesterday.

I have a hood florescent light and it's on about 10 hours a day.

I had 6 kuhlis, 8 harlequin rasboras and 2 honey dwarf gouramis. Lost 5 loaches and 1 gourami all in the past week-week and a half. I kept my stocking low just to be on the safe side.

I gravel vac every week when I do my (used to be) 50% water change, clean the filter pads in old fish water and unplug all except one filter to keep the water moving. I use Prime and nothing else oh except Flourish for my plants. I feed a variety of food freeze dried bloodworms, tubiflex, flakes and pellets. The kuhlis get their own pellets too.

I've never had a shock and my equipment is all in good shape and working well. I check everything when I clean them.

Sorry this is a bit disjointed but I'm trying to answer as many questions as I can.

I don't know if PH varies from night to morning I will check. Only time any fish gasp is when I add the 3rd 12quart bucket to the tank. Otherwise they are happy and swimming about.

I'll have to get back to you on the plants as I have a list at home but not on hand.

Oh darn I have an otocincluns fish too. He's thriving strangely enough.

No other inhabitant has ever been in my tank since I got it.

There, that's a start!

Louise

I'm trying to add up everything, but some details still aren't clear.

1st I want to get the fish ID correct. Kuhli loach is a common name for many types pangio species. Can you identify what kind of kuhli loach you have? Reason I'm asking is that some pangio actually prefer water a little cooler than others.


What is the water temperature of aquarium? Has the thermometer been tested for accuracy? Many thermometers are +/- 4 F degrees. You'd be surprised how different one thermometer can read from the next.

I'd like to know the actual water volume of the aquarium and more details about the water changes. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm understanding that you are adding 3- 12 quart buckets of water for a 50% water change?

My math-
12 quarts is 3 gallons. 3 gallons x 3 buckets = 9 gallons. Is 9 gallons a 50% water change? Is the actual water volume only 18 gallons?

How are you adding the Prime? How are you adding the Flourish? How much of each are you adding? Are you adding this stuff to all 3 buckets?