Loaches Online Forum

Also, look at the pic closer. Those gills look very red to me.

i like where this post is going, it seems like we will diagnose this some day. I cant get any pics because my clowns dont have this bubble. I cant go to the fish store to take a pic because i do not have a camera. Maybee someone else here might find a group at their fish store, they can take a picture. I will continue to search the web for a better pic in the meantime.

this was the nex best pic i could find. Just click on the link. Notice how these also have red gills.
http://allabout.co.jp/pet/aquarium/clos ... _loach.jpg

clownloachfan wrote:i like where this post is going, it seems like we will diagnose this some day.

Keep your fingers crossed. We'll try, but there is no guarantee of a success and it may yet come to having to do some tests.

On photos: they are valuable, and the more you can find the better. I promise to take a very close look at any clowns I see at the stores here. But the best thing you can do right now is to summarize all that you know about it from your personal experience and the experience of others you talked to. The more we can cut off, the better are the chances we'll get somewhere.

Some specific questions you could address now:
1. How many clowns like this have you seen?
2. Was the bubble always in the mid-body position?
3. Was it always on one side?

chefkeith,

If it was a chronic disease and not transmittable, why would a group of fish that were purchased together have the same problem? IMO, if it's not a genetic defect, then something traumatic happened to the group of fish somewhere along the line.

I don't believe it is a genetic defect either. Some of the other possibilities include a virus, or a parasite, or a tumor, or.... I'm also not certain that there is any connection to the gills, they don't look abnormally red to me (and they were not red in the loach I had two years ago). Keep in mind that these are small/young animals, some gill redness is natural.

It sounds strange that the bubble always appears in the same place in different individuals.

I wanted to suggest MYCOBACTERIUM MARINUM as a possible cause but why would it attack exactly the same area in different fishes?

This one is tricky.

Hi, Andre,

I think we are thinking along the same lines.

We don't yet know it is in the same position...this is why I asked this exact question above. Myco* is certainly on the list of possible options, but there are more problems with assuming it is the culprit, besides the location.

I think we need more from the OP ....

Interesting. Sorry, i dont think i can find any more pics on the net. I sifted through about 500 pics on google. Didnt make any sense to go further since no more pics of clowns were showing up. I will have to do some research about MYCOBACTERIUM MARINUM.
Another 3 points to add are-
1-yes, the bubble is always in the same spot.
2-the bubble is visible from both sides of the clown
3-I have seen hundreds of clowns like this, whether they are in a small fish store that only has a gruop of 10 or in a large fish store that has a group of 100+

just did a little research-
1-MYCOBACTERIUM MARINUM is a marine organism, but still lives in freshwater as well as soil.
2-It can be spread to humans. This happens usually through cuts and open wounds( wouldnt there be alot of reports about infections?)
3-It is very contagious and spreads throughout the whole aquarium. I have not had this problem. Only the loaches who have the bubble die.
4-It is called fish tuberculosis since it so closely related to it.
5-symptoms are Weight loss, non-healing open ulcers, a distended abdomen, loss of appetite, fin erosion, unusual coloration, pop-eye, spinal deformities, and listless behavior.

Mark in Vancouver wrote:Emma might also be able to comment on how this shop ended up with a batch of sickly loaches.

Not really. I've never seen or heard of this 'bubble phenomenon' before. I wonder whether the shop is obtaining their stock through a wholesaler rather than direct from the exporters. Maybe they are then being held in very poor conditions prior to selling on to the shop? Or maybe the actual exporter has dubious standards themselves? Either way, the shop in question needs to look at changing suppliers. Poor little loachies.

Emma

I agree with Emma. Your lfs needs to change its suppliers if such phenomenons keep occuring. There appears to be little or no cure for fish tuberculosis at any rate.

it is not just one shop, it is all of them in my area. It is a very rare thing to see them in my area without this bubble.

clownloachfan wrote:it is not just one shop, it is all of them in my area. It is a very rare thing to see them in my area without this bubble.

Then it is possible that all your shops share the same supplier. Is it possible to order online instead? If I were you, I'd talk them into changing their suppliers.

Maybe this points to them all using the same wholesaler? Whatever the reason, it shouldn't be happening.

Emma

now that you mention it, i was at 3 of the shops when they got their shipments in and they all had the same supplier. I guess i should not name the supplier, not like i completely remember it anyways.

It may also be worth enquiring whether these came from an Asian supplier or a European supplier, such as the Czech Republic....

Emma