Loaches Online Forum

Thanks for the compliments guys (and gals)!

loachmom wrote:You and your son do wonderful work together. The stand is just beautiful.
I think the locks on the doors are great idea. Having kids myself (I'm assuming the locks are to keep little hands out), I think I'll ask my husband to include locking doors on the stand he will be building for me.

Thanks, it amazes me how persistent he is when I do anything at all with the project. One night when I was testing out the fill plumbing and float valve I had the door open and light on watching the level raise. For about an hour straight he stood there watching and kept pointing and saying 'water'! He even grabbed his little plastic chair and pulled himself up a seat to watch the splashing. So far he really does enjoy watching the 'peish' in my tanks.

I ordered the locks online and got a whole set all matching keys thank god! In antique brash finish.

Colin wrote:Great, glad you have used them before and found them okay.

My 4 year old daughter loves 'helping' too. Funny when she calls the battery drill Daddy's toys

Yeah, so far no problems.

Keith Wolcott wrote:Nice job on the stand. I may do something similar on mine.

Thanks Keith, one thing I kind of wish I did was to run the doors all the way to the trim at the top and bottom. That way they would be more invisible, you wouldnt see any horizontal seems.

Whitey_MacLeod wrote:Looking good. The pot scrubbers are a great idea- I'm going to pick some up to pack out my xp3.

Only thing I found with the XP3 is that unless you really stuff em in there will be large gaps in between them, so you might get some bypass. Not a big deal though, I used them in my XP3. And of course make sure not to get any with chemicals, etc.

Sounds like you're raising a future aquarist, Tristan. One of my kids really enjoys fish more than the others. She has two tanks that she cares for faithfully.
I have a RenaXP3 that I packed out with pot scrubbers. I got my scrubbers at Walmart, and they were rather large. I had to 'open' them up and flatten them some before I packed them in the container.

This forums coding is a bit different than most, but I think I figured out how to link succesfully to certain posts, so I've gone back to the first post and made a 'table of contents' to hopefully add some organization to this thread. Plus I just like to do nerdy things like that, and add a bit of interest to the thread. Hopefully it will work for everyone, please let me know if it doesnt since I am not 100% sure about the phpBB code. I'll try to go back to page1 and edit it when I make new posts (although might not be right away). And hope everyone isnt sick of seing this thread every single day since I have been updating it so much.

Tristan- We are not at all tired of seeing your thread. I look for it and you are helping me with lots of decisions that I am trying to make. Good idea on the adjustment of the doors on the stand. I like the look of the tongue and groove so I think that I will go with that too.

Earlier, you made a comment about hearing some negatives about Glasscages. I have not found such info so I am wondering what typed of problems people had and if you have had any problems. I have now found that they travel very close to my home so I will not have much trouble with delivery.

Thanks you.

WAY cool table of contents Tristan! Works for me.

This thread is way too cool. Great job on everything.

Thanks all,

And Keith...

Keith Wolcott wrote:Earlier, you made a comment about hearing some negatives about Glasscages. I have not found such info so I am wondering what typed of problems people had and if you have had any problems. I have now found that they travel very close to my home so I will not have much trouble with delivery.

Ok here is the deal with GC... So far I am happy so I am not giving them a bad review by any means. Many have complained about there sloppiness with silicone. This I can see on my tank as well. I dont really care I am not a perfectionist. But many are, and its been said before that it takes a couple hours with a razorblade to get the tank to not look horrible. Again, I really dont pay attention to silicone so long as it holds the glass together. My glass tank seems built like a tank (pun, pun). The bracing is kind of large, the bases of the overflows where they are drilled is doubled up (1" total thickness), etc. Just not nearly as 'refined' as some others, a bit more utilitarian rather than a work of art. But thats why they are inexpensive as well. But thats the one thing I do not like about them... they keep raising there prices. My tank has gone up like $150 since I bought it! Also to get fully equipped overflows is more expensive of an option than it is from my lfs...

It seems most of the customer complaints stem from custom ordered acrylic tanks, and there 'customer service skills'. Its a family run company, and apparently if you catch em at a bad time they arent the most friendly folks

Here is a discussion about some problems folks have had:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/gener ... cages.html
Sorry it refers to another forum yet so you'll have to follow another link.

I do hate posting that link, since some pretty strong negative opinions were there, but I guess they brought it upon themselves. I bought my tank long before that thread was made, and GC was often mentioned and praised.

I must say so far I am happy. They were good to me on the phone and never had any issues. Tank looks built strong, just some sloppy silicone work. If I ever build another big tank, I might still order from them, but will also look at other sources since it wont be a cheap tank... something along the lines of 3/4" starphire glass and no cross braces or trim for the ultimate open-top look. Hang some MH pendants, and have some driftwood and plants growing up and out the top of the tank...

This project was started with the idea of setting up a big tank for cheap, and GC was a great value at the time for such a large tank. I could have done it for cheap (a relative term of course), but quickly changed my mind along the way buying good stuff, automation, etc.

Pumps
This has ended up being a big ordeal for me. Originally I didn’t want to spend big bucks on pumps. And under a few good reviews I bought two Quiet One 4000 pumps, one for each sump. Each would go to its own spraybar. They are rated 1017gph and max head of 10.2'. With head loss, I figured both of them combined should be pushing 1,000gph into the tank, which is on the low said of what I thought would be acceptable (keeping in mind I was also going to use some large powerheads with a few thousand gph from there).

Here is a pic I'll repost of the QO4000 and a simple DIY filter box:


Well, being new to big tanks and wanting decent flow, I was a bit surprised how little flow I was getting out of my spraybars. Maybe it has to do with how the flow is dispersed across the large spraybars, or the size of the holes not big enough or too big, not sure. The overflows were only trickling, with dry spots between each tooth. I decided an upgrade was needed, direly.

So I looked at the rest of their models... and stepped up to 2 QO6000's. This would allow me to keep the same configuration as the 4000's, but get a few hundred more gph. Well, I was again sorely disappointed. I couldn’t even feel any flow placing my hand in front of the spraybars about 5". And the noise level was worse, the 4000's were pretty quite, these were borderline for me. And they had big inefficient looking paddle style impellor and a very inefficient power rating. Still was only trickling over the overflows. So back to looking. I decided to go a different route, one bigger more efficient pump. The QO9000 had 2328gph rating and only 145W (compared by 2x 110W for the 6000). It had a much more efficient looking turbine shaped impellor. So hoping its design was much more efficient, I decided to go that route and re-do all my plumbing to accommodate a single pump instead of dual.


QO4000 next to QO9000

Now the big question, had I finally found a good pump? No! The flow rate was good, in fact it was exceeding the capacity for the two sumps to balance each other out since the pump was just in one. Still not blowing anything away in the tank but acceptable. The problem was noise! It wasn’t bearable really. Quite disappointed. Maybe it was a fluke? I researched the pump online and found many saying the same thing (should have searched first) so I figured I didn’t get a fluke. Gee whiz I am not having good luck, and wasting money in plumbing by ripping glued pvc out and replacing. This time I am going to get a good pump! I researched for a quite, high flow, reputable pump. Reefcentral had lots of info for this. I decided on a Sequence Reeflo pump, the Snapper model. It had a 2400gph rating and amazingly only 98W! It had a very efficient looking impellor design and the folks at reefcentral seemed to think it was very quiet and reliable. After searching for the best deal though, I ended up purchasing its bigger brother, the Dart, since it was only $10 more. The Dart is rated at 3600GPH and 160W (145W typical). Here is its flow chart:
http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/750_D ... -chart.gif


QO4000 next to Reeflo Dart. Big difference!

Now to re-do the plumbing again...
Since this was an external pump with a very large 2" intake, it called for a complete re-do on the plumbing. I had to get and install two more bulkheads for the sumps, I used 1.5", with double unions, and tee'd them with a double wye fitting into 2".


I tried to scavenge what I could from my previous attempts, which led to some unsightly parts, and some odd mismatches but oh well. If I were to start from scratch it would look much better.

Now I get good flow, still not like placing your hand in front of a powerhead when placed in front of the spraybar, but its moving the water throughout the tank well. And its pushing a lot of water over the overflows. Even with the spraybars near the tanks bottom I get rippling all over the surface. I'd probably get a lot more apparent flow if I just used nozzles instead of long spraybars, but I am not going to rip out those now. And it ensures I have flow throughout the tank.

However I have created another problem that will soon be fixed. With all this flow (even backed down a little) the sumps are now bubbling like a hot tub with the jets turned all the way on. Pump is quiet but now the sumps are gurgling/bubbling like mad! So I am now working on fixing that, using something I saw on reefcentral, basically using a T rotated 90* so flow comes in center, bubbles come up and water goes down, with a vented cap.

Thanks for the info Tristan. I have managed to read through it all, but now have to decide how to proceed.

I'm glad that you have a good pump now. Good luck on the gurgling sounds!

New Filter Boxes
After getting the much larger Sequence Dart pump I was really thinking my filter boxes were going to be too small. And also since they were plumbed into the QO pumps with much smaller plumbing I'd have to re-do them anyhow. But that’s OK, I'll set them aside for a future smaller tank that might use the 4000's.

I debated different sizes and shapes and ultimately decided on a similar box but one just slightly not as long and a little deeper. I am going to vertically orient them and put two back to back in each sump. So there will be 4 of them to spread the flow across. So basically the same design as before, but twice as many of them:


I cut the top out with a dremel and spiral saw bit.



I liked these boxes since they had a real deep lip around the lid that would help seal between the floss and lid.



Marking where I need to cut out for the plumbing.



Cut it out with a hole saw bit in my hand drill.



After gluing the endcap on, I started drilling holes with my drill press into the end which will be inside the filter.



More potsrubbies. These boxes hold 1/3 more scrubbers, plus there are two more boxes now.



These boxes weren’t quite as square as the others, took a lot of trimming to get the eggcrate to fit right.



Floss cut to fit top. I also made a simple template the shape I need out of cardboard so I can cut them out easier next time. Sorry blurry pic.



Completed filter box.



One box installed. They are just press-fit into the wye, hopefully that will suffice. You can also see the co2 line I run through a small hole in the cap of the wye.



Two boxes installed per each sump.



Another view of the filter boxes installed in the sump tank.

I think I am finally done with gosh darn plumbing!!! This better work! lol.

That looks scary to me.

You absolutely sure they won't leak? I'd be nervous!

Remember they're contained in the sump Shari, so any leak isn't going on the floor. Mind-blowing stuff Tristan.

Martin.

Martin Thoene wrote:Mind-blowing stuff Tristan.

I second that! I'm not at all familiar with sumps, but my 13 year old son and I looked at these pictures for quite a while this morning. The best we could figure is that the water first enters the big outside tub, then is forced through the smaller tubs containing the scrubbers and floss, before going back up to the tank. Are we right?

I only recently figured out how sump tanks work.

The simplest way to put it is that you need to have an overflow that is just at the waterline of your tank that is at the point where it's stopped draining from the tank.

Then, set up the sump under it, fill the sump with the amount of water you want, and then start the pump that pumps water up into your fish tank.

What you get is the pump putting water into the tank to trigger the overflow.

What this does is it sets the overflow to have the same flow rate as your pump and should the power ever go out, the water won't over drain, nor will your sump overflow from the drained water.

Once you get that basic principle running, you can do a lot of other shenanigans with your tank.

I hope this helps.

I am not sure the reason for the egg crate; wouldn't a sufficient supply of pot scrubbers keep the floss in place? I would be more concerned about the floss slipping out through to top of the box. Perhaps next time cut the lid with a grid of some sort to stabilize the floss. Just a few cross pieces, nothing that would slow down the flow. At this point you could, of course put the egg crate against the open lid, and sandwich the floss between the pot scrubbers and the egg crate. hmmm... No need to be so careful cutting the egg crate, cut the hole in the lid square (Rounded corners to keep it from tearing) and cut the egg crate square, and just a bit bigger so it sits inside the box, just under the lid. Zip tie the two together. Presto! Vented lid...

Have you bought out all the pot scrubbers in your city? Maybe I should invest in the pot scrubber business!

I like the idea of simply pressing the parts together. While there may be a minor leak (Not a problem inside the sump box) it will be rather easy to separate the parts for cleaning. Did you use any sort of Vaseline or something to keep the parts from sticking together? It will make it that much easier to take the fillings apart when you need to. (Teflon tape of course, on the threaded fittings, the Vaseline is simply for slip-slip fittings that are intended to come apart for cleaning)