Loaches Online Forum

Thanks for the information odyssey! I'm going to try adding some nutrients to get better algae for my hillstreams.

in wild marine systems green algae growth tends to be limited by Phosphorous and Iron. Not sure if this is the same for FW systems, but with fish producing Nitrogenous wastes you may only need tiny amounts of these to kick-start algae growth. This may also serve to consume and eliminate N in your system as it does in natural marine/coral reefs.

Thank you very very much odyssey~!

I am amazed by your tanks and the care you put in them, the fish look great and I hope to follow your perfect example!

One question to be sure: you have about 70 fish per tank?

I am just a beginner so I will not keep as many, but your fish look very happy and I hope you will keep on inspiring us!

Thanks again for your kind explaination!

Hi plaalye , andyroo and Maan.

An answer, I'm sorry to be late.
Fight and time are necessary to the complicated contents for an investigation and translation.

An alga is disliked existence in the aquarium world. However, the basis by which an alga supports an ecosystem at the natural world.
When making it a supporter without regarding an alga with hostility, water quality management becomes easy.

In former my water tank.
When I changed the water, and time had passed, pH was falling gradually, and it was pH about 6.
But in the present water tank.
Algae and water plants are a jungle at all by enough light energy.
As a result, pH of an water tank didn't go down any more so much.
In the evening, pH about 8. Early in the morning, pH7+. It's going up and down pH of a tank in its reach.
I do not put coral-sand and alkali addition materials.
I think the cause is because acidic substance of Nitrate (NO3), Phosphate (PO4) and Carbonate (CO3) etc. is consumed for growth of an alga and a water plant.

I noticed increasing in multiplication of algae after partial changing water several years before.
I guessed the substance which promotes multiplication of an alga to be included in the tap water.
Japan is a volcano country with a lot of valley streams, so the silicic acid density of much tap water is high, and Ca and Mg density are low.

I think the most important alga kind(Biofilm,Aufwuchs,Rockwork) is diatom and Cyanobacteria for Hillstream loach and Stiphodon goby.

Much sweetfish (Plecoglossus altivelis altivelis) lives in a Japanese river.
Sweetfish has its own territory and makes the alga principal food.
They scratch, take and eat dirt in the surface of the stone in a riverbed.
It's important fish as fishing and food in Japan.
Therefore it's studied scientifically very often.
From a research resultIt, it is said that contents of a stomach is mainly diatom and cyanobacteria.
http://images.google.co.jp/images?num=5 ... 4&ct=title

A great deal of silicic acids are necessary for growth of a diatom besides the phosphorus and the nitrogen.
Silicon is the main ingredient a stone, sand and glass, but it isn't dissolved naturally from those.
Silicic acid is supplied by continuous erosion by a flow on a river.
I think that silicic acid does insolubilization in the water tank in a short term.

Maan wrote:One question to be sure: you have about 70 fish per tank?

Yes, I maintain 70 of fish per a tank. But that's the number when being luckiest.
When shrimp and snail are also counted, 100 should be exceeded. They're propagating selfishly, so the number is unclear.

My tank is a jungle, so the safety confirmation of fish isn't easy.
For example Kuhli loach is here from 2006, but it's rarely possible to see the form.
That was seen after a long time last month.
When making it good, such about 10 fish are living in the jungle.

I think it's the general metabolism amount to restrict the number of the fish raised in the water tank.
When the total weight is same, the one when having a lot of numbers of individuals, becomes large in the general metabolism quantity.

Most is small for the fish species of my tank, and the food self-sufficiency rate in the tank is quite high.
Therefore there is little food imported from outside. Electric energy is put in instead.

The latest survey result is indicated below.
A hopeful observation.

Since you mention the sweetfish do you know is it true that sweetfish in nature lives for only a little more than a year?

Hi Tony.

Tony T. wrote:Since you mention the sweetfish do you know is it true that sweetfish in nature lives for only a little more than a year?

That's right, they live for only 1 year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayu

They're the habit which goes down to a sea once after a hatch like Stiphodon.(amphidromous migration)
But Stiphodon genus is longevity often.
It was very small, but S.percnopterigionus lived for more than 5 years in my tank.

Sweetfish fishing is a very popular sportsfishing in Japan.
When it grows, they make the alga principal food, so it isn't possible to fish by food.
Sweetfish scratches an alga in the surface of the stone, and the following picture site is a taken scar.
http://sa4410.at.webry.info/200709/article_5.html
http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/005 ... 221651.JPG

Using the habit from which a jurisdiction is protected, it's fished by a traditional way as fishing by live decoy.
A site with pictures of the state of the sweetfish fishing.
http://uoop.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2008-07-20

Thanks Odyssey. Sweetfish rivals Nothobranchias for longivity

Your pictures are very nice and Thanks for all the info you have posted so far . It is very helpful.

I am keeping my Red Stiphodon with Butterfly/Honkong loaches and Rhinogobius wui gobies.

Do you know if these Red Stiphodon & Rhinogobius wui gobies need salt in their water ?
Also do they need good water current flow in their aquariums ?

Have you had any chance to find out how to breed the Stiphodon gobies ?

Your kind feedback will be highly appreciated .

Thanks

Hi, balik.
Welcome to LOL.

I have not raised Rinogobius kinds yet actually.
I don't also know and the name of which stiphodon fish as "Red Stiphodon" is.

But the salinity isn't probably necessary to growing of adult fish.
Much of the fish species of the freshwater goby family has the habit which will go down to a sea once immediately after a hatch.
Therefore it's necessary to control to brackish water and fresh water from seawater to make the fry hatched out grow.
Very difficultly, I hear almost no example of success for this salinity control.
The state which lays in the water tank has been seen many times, but a fry has not grown.
Unfortunately, it can't also be expected from now on by my water tank.

My water tank has upward flow of bubbling. There is also a weak flow by return current water from a filter tank.
The flow is useful because stagnation isn't made in the water tank but the state to which Stiphodon prefers a flow is not.
Stiphodon often dives in sand. Therefore they're guessing to endure the low oxygen density.













Youtube Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvtyB37ijaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGx4hjQZhZA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LutS59iRNjY

So they are fine with normal Bubble Foam Filter or any hang on the back filter flow.
I thought they liked fast running water and lots of oxygen.

Thanks for your answer, appreciated.

Very nice gobies.

That's a lot of great photos!!
But after seeing all these photos, I really wonder that how you can tell which female belongs to which species.
Can you teach me how to identify the female of Stiphodon percnopterygionus?

Anyway, thanks for your great share!

Hi hixku.
Welcome to LOL.
Also give my best regards with future.
I long for a goldfish district in Hong Kong (tung choi street).
Are many Stiphodon and Gastromyzon sold at a goldfish district in Hong Kong?

hixku wrote:But after seeing all these photos, I really wonder that how you can tell which female belongs to which species.
Can you teach me how to identify the female of Stiphodon percnopterygionus?

It is more difficult in the case of a male to distinguish and a female of the Stiphodon genus.
As for the design of a female body, black long stripe is basic on white.
It is delicately different by a fish class.
I cannot express a delicate difference with my poor English. I prepared below a lot of pictures in substitution for words.

Male and female of Stiphodon percnopterygionus during a courtship act.
A female color of the body changes when excited.



A female of the laying eggs standby.


Females of Stiphodon percnopterygionus are always close. It is rare, but a color of the body seems to change in this way when they quarrelled.



S.percnopterygionus is the smallest body in general Stiphodon. Around 3.5cm at the maximum.
Black stripe with irregular disorder and soft build.
When it is from a picture, it is hard to distinguish.
Mostly females have a big stomach, and females always crowd. Therefore the identification in the water tank is not difficult.






"Rainbow Color" is the biggest in general Stiphodon. Around 7cm at the maximum.
Black stripe with a little disorder of the outline and the build that seem to be slightly firm.
When it is from a picture, it is hard to distinguish.
While a body is small, it is difficult to distinguish it from S.percnopterygionus only by appearance.
However, the "Raibow color" do not participate in a female flock of S.percnopterygionus.
I can distinguish it from the state.







A female of S.percnopterygionus, a female of two "Rainbow Color", a female of "Blue moon".
Size is double of S.percnopterygionus.


A central big individual is a female of "Rainbow Color". A color of the body is changed in excitement.
The back side is a female of S.percnopterygionus. This side is a female of "Blue Moon".


A female of still small "Rainbow Color". The right side is a female of "Blue Moon".


From the left, a male of "Blue moon", a female of" Blue moon", a male of S.percnopterygionus .
The rim of the scale is slightly black, and the burr of the diamond is outstanding.


It is a female of "Blue Moon", a female of "Rainbow Color", a male of" Blue Moon ", a female of" Rainbow Color", a male of "Blue Moon" sequentially from the top.


It is a female of "Blue Moon", a female of "Blue Moon", a male of" Blue Moon" sequentially from the top.


A female of "Blue Moon" eating indigo plant algae.


It is a female of "Blue moon", a female of" Rainbow Color", a male of "Rainbow Color" from the left.


This is tripos.
If it is all the problems correct answer, you are the master.


A female of "Orange Fin".
It is easy to distinguish this kind from other Stiphodon.
However, according to the result of the DNA analysis by Dr. Mukai of the Japanese researcher, I may confuse two species with the difference hereditarily.



Though this is what I can say to all, the distinction by the appearance is an appearance after all.
The identification of an accurate species should depend on DNA analysis.
I'm ordering a DNA analysis device for general families.
It is the back for 20 years on the appointed date of delivery!

Well, I really need to thank you for teaching me so much about the females, I think I have started to understand.

As for your question "I long for a goldfish district in Hong Kong (tung choi street). Are many Stiphodon and Gastromyzon sold at a goldfish district in Hong Kong?"

I am sorry that this may not be the case
As far as I know, only one shop among all the shops that are located in the goldfish district is selling Stiphodon currently. (Mine were from that shop too )But I do know that some other shops that are now selling gobies, though they are not located near to each other.
I guess it would depend on when you are coming if you want to see them, beacuse they will be sold out as there are not many of them.

As for Gastromyzon, there are quite a lot of them from different species in the goldfish district already, but since I don't know much about Gastromyzon, I can't tell you what the species are or if they are rare. Even if they are comparatively cheap or expensive, I just don't know.

I hope that the information can help. And if you want a local citizen to help when you are in Hong Kong, you can find me because I just happen to be able to understand a little bit of Japanese. (Really little and poor though )

Wonderful pics and tutorial odyssey! Thank you!!
So what do you think these are?


I bought these as "stiphodon ornatus" along with some "red neon stiphodon" males. The males are possibly stiphodon artratus?


hixku, If you have the means to take photos we would love to see those gastromyzons!! I'm sure odyssey and others could help with ID.

Thank you very much Odyssey, you did a lot of work, very much appreciated. I will study your post a couple more often. I am so happy you are posting - I have searched very long to find info about stiphodon and similar. And of course I LOVE your pictures.

plaalye, I have the same I guess, and thought it were a female "orangefin" stiphodon.