Bacteria of other fish & loaches, pic´s of organs in for

[wasserscheu]

My question is about any possibilty you possibly see, avoiding disinfecting the filter:

I am insecure due to (supposed) bacteria-suffering fish in my loachtank.

A pair of Colisa lalia died even after Nifupiranol (JBL Furanol) treatment, in a quarantine-tank. 4 Guppys survived (now remaining in quarantine). After treatment excrements of Colisa turned back to normal.

Watervalues are ok. expect some rather high "German-alltogether Hardness" ( did not find translation ) dGH = 16° (from waterpipe = 12°!, need to open separate posting regarding that) Calcium-hardness 10° ( =more or less o.k.)

The patients suffered on very big stomach (male + female) and about double breathing rate. Partially white excrements. I tried a dissection and found the femals´s liver (?) enlarged (as big as an enlarged lens) the male´s had no nomal consitency anymore.
Under the mikroskope, I could not find any signs off "large" Parasites or worms or other non-fish "stuff" on gills or organs. Therefore I suspect bacteria.

Loaches (clowns & Kuhli), Cats and algea eaters don´t show any symptoms at all. The Colisa propably brought the infection with them. in the loachtank they showed the symptom very slowly increasing for about 6 weeks (I thought initially they ate too much...), but as Guppys started the same symptoms, I was disappointed of my awareness and put them in Quarantine.

Theoretically I am in need of disinfecting the tank and filter. As my Filter is a bio-filter with clearing-sludge, working very well, I don´t want to kill the bacteria in there. This kind of filter is some kind of experiment for me ...The clearing sludge was supposed to be the starter for my new tank...

Most fish will move to larg tank within 4 months or so...

I will increase waterchanges. I put up the temperature in the loach tank during last week, now back to normal.

How sensitive are Clowns and Kuhlis to possible bactera?

Perhaps someone could help narrowing down the infection, shall I put the pictures of the opened fish and separated organs in the forum (ethic concern)? Or rather send to some of you via pn?

I am aware that there is no simple answer to my question (as I don´t know WHAT bacteria), but your input my give me new perspectives, pleaso don´t hesitate writing whatever your opinion is about, I am looking forward to various points of view...thanks a million.

Regards Wolfram

[Kitishane]

I think it would be interesting to see the pictures.

[helen nightingale]

Wolfram

sorry to hear about your loss im afraid i cant give you any advice though. best wishes for getting everything sorted out

[angelfish83]

I know someone who has a BA in chemistry and biology and can tell you 100% what it is if you post pics.

[chefkeith]

Watervalues are ok. expect some rather high "German-alltogether Hardness" ( did not find translation ) dGH = 16° (from waterpipe = 12°!, need to open separate posting regarding that) Calcium-hardness 10° ( =more or less o.k.)

The patients suffered on very big stomach (male + female) and about double breathing rate. Partially white excrements. I tried a dissection and found the femals´s liver (?) enlarged (as big as an enlarged lens) the male´s had no nomal consitency anymore.
Regards Wolfram

I think everyone knows what I'm about to say. I think this is TDS shock. This happens from water evaporation over a long time period.
GH of 16 in the tank and GH of 12 out of tap suggests this.
Here's a related story describing a similiar case-
http://www.guppylog.com/story/2004/2/7/73527/94333

Sorry if I'm way off the map.

[wasserscheu]

thanks for your replies...

... good waterchanges are a good reminder, specially in the cold and dry season...

Pictures are available under the following addr., please be aware that this link shows views off dead fish (natural death) and separated organs:

http://de.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/wolfra ... ir=6e43re2

... please look for "Bildershow"-button...

The pictures lack quality, due to camera and wrong white -balance

I am not very skilled in med. stuff, however I am interessted...


rephrasing my rather long posting above:

HOW COMMON ARE "BIG STOMACH DESEASES AMONGST LOACHES?"

Thanks

Wolfram

[The Kapenta Kid]

Just a couple of clarifications on technical translations that may help.

"German-alltogether Hardness" , that would be Gesamt Haerte. In English they use the same abbreviation, GH, but usually term it General Hardness rather than Total Hardness which it truly means, since in English 'general' fits the abbreviation better. It is sometimes called German Hardness too.

"as big as an enlarged lens" You probably meant 'linse' in German which translates in this sense to 'lentil' in English, i.e. the vegetable seed or legume.
Linse can also be translated as 'lens' but only in the optical sense.

Doesn't help your problem, but it may make things clearer for some

[wasserscheu]

Thanks,"Kapenta Kid"... it does help.

... I will work on my "say with a snap"-skills ...

Cheers

Wolfram

[wasserscheu]

.... I´ve decided not to medicate the tank. Red Neons show no symptoms. I´ll stay away from putting fish like Colisa in a loach tank...and will stick with river fish only...

Wolfram

[shoostoill]

Kuhlis lack the hard scales seen in many fish species, increasing their disease susceptibility. They can even be sensitiveslope to changes in temperature and water quality.

[Reiama]

Is there any way to reduce the disease rate of these fish? Can we make changes to the water quality or temperature to control it?


drift boss