Helping Shaazam....

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angelfish83
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Helping Shaazam....

Post by angelfish83 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:37 pm

Does anyone know of an alternative for Levamisole assuming it can't be found out in NFLD? Praziquantel or something maybe? That can be ordered and sent out there via MOPS web site...

Any ideas?

thanks

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rich
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Post by rich » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:21 pm

Flubenol also works in most cases. If she can get it, I have to look up the dosage, it`s a bit out of fashion.
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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:40 pm

Here's a thread on alternatives to levamisole. You may be able to find one of these other options...

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2782
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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:54 pm

Niclosamide. It's probably harder to find and much more expensive than Levamisole though. Dosage- Take .5 g of Niclosamide and mix with 100mg of food. Feed fish 2x daily for 4 days. Overdoses could be poisonous.

Trichlorfon. This med is more common and cheap, but also poisonous. Kordon sells it under the name "Trifon" in 4 1/2 oz bottles.
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/Trifon/index.htm
Dosage is 0.25 -3.0 ppm for 3 days. Dosage depends on the hardness of the water and the fish. Toxic to invertebrates and mollusks. I'd probably use a Q-tank.

Mebendazole. Another more common and cheap med. Sold under the name "Vermox" or "Quemox". It doesn't dissolve in water well, so it should be dissolved in some alcohol 1st. Dosage 1-2 ppm for 2-3 days.

Aquarium Products sells "Fluke Tabs" which contains Trichlorfon and Mebendaazole. Probably costs about $3 at the LFS. Just follow the dosage on the package.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Flu ... tnG=Search

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angelfish83
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Post by angelfish83 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:20 am

I'd be concerned about the last product because it also contains a very powerful organophosphate which afaik is unsafe for invertebrates and scaleless fish... It can be found out there though...

libingboy
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Post by libingboy » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:33 am

i was recommended by a vet to use a combination of closantel and albendazole... i dont have access to levamisole too, and ive used this combination a lot of times... but i cant really say whether it worked or not

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shazam26
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Post by shazam26 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:05 am

Thanks everyone for the help! I think I will order some from one of you if that's possible- I'd love to make sure Lewellyn is ok. :( He acts fine and eats fine, too- but he looks too thin for my liking- and many others seem to agree. So just to confirm- Levamosile isn't toxic? How will it affect the other fish?

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Post by cybermeez » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:55 am

angelfish83 wrote:I'd be concerned about the last product because it also contains a very powerful organophosphate which afaik is unsafe for invertebrates and scaleless fish... It can be found out there though...
I would have to concur re: Trichlorfon. I had tried it once very early on in my fishkeeping days and very easily killed some clowns with it. This stuff is bad news. It is not only toxic to inverts and fish but also people. Organophosphates are some of the most toxic concotions out there. Some are used in weapons of mass destruction. For exmple, sarin and VX nerve gas are organophosphates.

The crazy thing about organophosphates is that despite being very similar chemically, the degree of toxicity can vary among differnt creatures. Some kill just bugs (like malathion) and don't kill people, though the jury is still out as to how it does affect people even if it doesn't kill them. And others (like sarin) kill everthing in its path. Scary stuff.

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chefkeith
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Post by chefkeith » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 pm

I concur too. None of the meds I listed were mentioned before so I threw them out there. They are alternatives, just not good ones. That's why Levamisole HCL is gaining popularity.

Levamisole is the safe way to go. As for toxicity, well almost everything can be toxic (even salt and sugar), you just have to stay within the recommended dosage range. Lethal Dosage has been listed as 250 ppm for eels, whereas the recommended dosage is 2 ppm.

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:29 pm

As far as safety goes, levamisole is the best bet for nematodes and I'd even go so far as to say failure to thrive issues.

For it to reach toxicity level you have to seriously overdose. Besides which it has the added benefit of being an immunostimulator that has benefits beyond the anthelmintic properties.

It's safe. It's effective. Use it in accordance with reasonable dosing recommendations and there are benefits and no negatives. The only hobbyist negative I've heard thus far is from andyroo, another member. His post is here:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... ght=#17594

he did not lose any fish, but the response of his cichlids to it was not positive. I have not been able to locate the particular type of levamisole he used on the internet, but based on his description of it, it is not the type I generally use or recommend. Did that have anything to do with the results in his tank? I don't really know. But thought I'd pass on his account for the sake of completeness.
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shazam26
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Post by shazam26 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:20 pm

I tried some cucumber pieces just then, Lewellyn has greedily rounded them up into his cave :lol: I'm anxious to help him out.
So Maracyn2 is a dud? Cybermeez, I could have sworn I'd seen you mention it. :? Only name I've come across in any of the stores so far...
I'm heading out tomorrow in one last venue attempt for the levamisole before getting some shipped directly to me. Wish me luck!

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cybermeez
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Post by cybermeez » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:07 am

shazam26 wrote:I tried some cucumber pieces just then, Lewellyn has greedily rounded them up into his cave :lol: I'm anxious to help him out.
So Maracyn2 is a dud? Cybermeez, I could have sworn I'd seen you mention it. :? Only name I've come across in any of the stores so far...
I'm heading out tomorrow in one last venue attempt for the levamisole before getting some shipped directly to me. Wish me luck!
I wouldn't say Maracyn 2 is a dud, but I recommend using it in combination with Maracyn. Maracyn 2 is Minocycline and Maracyn is Erythromycin. I've had good results with both. If the fish is in really bad shape and doesn't rally after that treatment that's when I'll use Levmisole. I've even used all 3 at once with particularly desperate cases.

If you can find both Maracyns (or their equivalents) I'd start with that and see how he does. If he does well, I'd still de-worm him after that with medicated food. Keep in mind, the fact that he's eating is a good sign.

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shazam26
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Post by shazam26 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:21 am

I saw Maracyn2 there, not Maracyn... I'm going to ask the owner to get it shipped in to me. Yes, Lewellyn is a very piggy eater. :lol: In fact, he's always the first to eat, and always eats the most... and that's saying a lot with Tanooki in the tank!

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Post by pedzola » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:03 pm

Just throwing in my $0.02...

Maracyn 1 and 2 combo seems to be universally recommended on other fish boards for as a general cure-all for bacterial stuff. When I was trying to treat a mystery disease in my loaches I was discouraged from using this combo, though.

There are a lot of meds out there for fishiz... and a lot of people have differing opinions based on their personal experiences.

It's tough to say "go with the majority" when there could be a chance of serious problems. But I think that doing something is better than nothing at all.

(Although admittedly, I am not a vetrinarian.)

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rich
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Post by rich » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:02 pm

I don`t like long distance diagnosis, without even seeing the fish.
Even so, if the fish is eating a lot, but is skinny, without white feces, my tip would be parasites from the worm family. They live in the intestinal system and steal the food ingredients.
If you treat a parasite infestet fish with antibiotics, like Erythromizyn, you can, make it a lot harder for him, because antibiotics are likely to destroy the intestinal flora (ever went to the toilet a lot, after antibiotic tratment?).
He won`t be able to use the rest nutritions the parasites leave him.
Going first after the parasites with Flubenol/Fenbendazole or Levamosole HCl, would be a much safer way.
rich


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